Hayes

I've got an 85 4runner with 33 x 1250 x 15 and the 22re automatic and, while it's no race car, it's not that bad. Just go for the 33s.

thook

Yah, yah..Mon! If I can AFFORD them...hehe. I'd need to come up with the extra for that size spare, if I was to go that size. I have a spare for 31's already. So, it's about economy at the moment. Timing chain replacement just arrived and I'm out the extra cash for the bigger tires. Juggling act, ya know.

tc

This one?
http://www.expeditionswest.com/resea...tion_rev1.html

10.5" is PLENTY wide for our relatively light trucks. Note that the taller tire results in a longer contact patch, which generally works better than a wider contact patch.

Going to a 12.5" increases the fitment issues dramatically and provides only marginally more flotation, if you really are doing sand or mud where you need flotation, you need to go taller and wider yet.

At the end of the day, the ONLY way to get clearance under the diffs is taller tires, and for a given amount of lift, you can run a considerably taller tire if it's narrower.

thook

Yeah, that's the one.

stormin94

Good point, I forgot about that. And I also forgot about wheel speed. Wider is real handy if you are about to get stuck in the mud though. But wider is not real great on snow.

Alex 400

Trune but what you need is the foot print. I understand that with a tall skinny tire you get a long foot print. but thats aired down a 15 psi. What about when your dring on the street in the snow? you would have your tires aired down that much would you? Thats why I think the 31/10.50 would be best. also if you the the contact patch when aired down would be larger than lets say a 31/9.50. I think it is based more so on driving style and equipment, meaning lead foot, power through it or float stay on top or it and take it easy. And how heavy your rig is would play a big factor, in my opinion on how wide the tire should be.

Ksane

If it helps you (or anyone else in this month old thread), I've got 33 x12.50 cheap old Wild Country brand with 4 cyl, stock gears. It gets around, but dogs out pretty bad speeding up to get on the highway, even with the 268c cam. I mounted these just until I got new permanent ones. I'm still trying to decide between 235/85/16 (32 x 9.5's) or 31/10.50's. I really want the skinnier tire but that'd mean 16" wheels and I'm not sure if that'd affect ride quality or not vs my 15" wheels. I wish I could find 32 x 9.50's in a 15" wheel. I hate this tire decision stuff.

Alex 400

Interco tire makes a couple. The TSL bias ply come in a 32/9.50-15
http://www.intercotire.com/site33.php

That is basically it unless you go to a 33/10.50-15

The TSL radail comes in a 33/10.50R-15
http://www.intercotire.com/site29.php

BFG makes a mud terrain in that size. There is also the interco bogger, but it's heavy.
You could just get some really nasty 31/10.50 and call it good.

tc

huh?

A taller tire has a longer contact patch at ALL pressures. They also have more ground clearance at ALL pressures.

These are top-heavy trucks, not F1 cars - and extra inch or two width isn't going to make a difference in handling on the road.

The point is that the effect of the extra width is NEGLIGIBLE, but the exaggeration of fitment issues is SEVERE. Stay with a 10.5" wide tire and avoid the rubbing.

thook

When I had a 78 Plymouth Trailduster 4x4, it had 30x9.50/15's on it....Kumho Powerguard MT's. That's as big of a tire it would economically pull. But, it never got stuck. It went through sand, deep mud, up steep muddy roads, snow and ice, and over rocks. You know...all terrain. And many times pulling up to a ton or more of weight. I think because of the tread design and the fact that the differentials locked. It wasn't even geared very low. Atleast, not as low as my 4rnr's.

Now, why couldn't Toyota have gone more with locking diff's instead of open from the factory? What a wonderful world it would be. Still...with open diff's, my '86 4rnr pulled the Plymouth (couldn't get the thing running) up a my steep, muddy drive because it had MT's (the same tires off the Plymouth). The little 4cyl. just kept digging and pulling it's way up much to my neighbor's amazement...AND mine.

So, in my book....tread and locking diff's are the real keys to traction. Just not clearance.

thook

A fellow, who owns a tire/alignment shop, told my wife and me during a conversation about tire choices and sources that there were different grades that manufacturers made and offered. (For example, BFG manufactures a line of TA/KO's with lower and a line with higher grade compounds.) Some manufacturers? All? I'm not certain who all he meant exactly, but the discussion was mainly centered around our considering buying BFG's at Sam's Club. He didn't offer BFG's or road hazard service and Sam's did. Regardless, he claimed that Sam's only purchased tires made of a lesser grade making it possible for them to offer tires at a lower cost. Is this true or is this hogwash? Does anyone have any idea of what he's talking about?

tc

Sounds fishy to me! Now it IS possible that he sells load range D or E where Sam's is quoting load range C, but C is plenty for our trucks - D/E are overkill and will adversely affect the ride quality

Hayes

it's hogwash, all companies get the same grade tire (i.e. BFG all terrains at all stores). The price comes from buying power, how much you buy. The more you buy the better price you get. The DO NOT make different qualities of the same tire.

Now, Kelley makes an all terrain that looks similar to the BFG, though it's not as aggressive, and it is cheaper because it isn't built as well.

The guy was feeding you bull so that you would buy from him and he wouldn't have to lower his price.

Hayes

thook

Thanks guys. S'what I figured, except that I know the fellow well enough that he wouldn't just be trying to sell me something. He is decent. I suspect he's misinformed. And just because I'm curious where the hell he come up with that idea, I'm going to look into it more....try to figure out where his wires got crossed. (As in what you, TC, are suggesting.)

thook

Well, after doing some research, between what my wife and I have turned up, there is apparently truth to what the man said. Here is some information turned up and emailed to me by my wife. It's lengthy and some info is unrelated, but valuable nonetheless. (I'd edit out the unrelated stuff...and what I don't agree with, but I found it useful and you may, too. Plus, I'm feeling too lazy.)

http://www.epinions.com/auto-Tires-A...splay_~reviews

http://www.epinions.com/search/?subm..._submit=Search

http://www.epinions.com/auto-Tires-A...splay_~reviews

http://www.epinions.com/search/?subm..._submit=Search

http://www.epinions.com/Yokohama_Geo...splay_~reviews

Cons: Low tread life, uneven wear, poor handling in wet conditions as tires age.

http://www.epinions.com/search/?subm..._submit=Search

http://www.epinions.com/content_84264980100

http://www.epinions.com/Kumho_Ecsta_...splay_~reviews

this is an interesting thread

http://cartalk.com/board/showflat.php?Number=231838


Besides also recommending the Tire Rack website, I want to make you aware of several things that are important to know about tires, in general.

Even if a tire still has a good amount of tread left on it, it will lose some adhesion over the years as the rubber hardens. So, even with a decent amount of tread remaining, a tire that has been in service for 4 years or more will not grip as well as when it was new.

Every manufacturer makes a variety of tires, to suit different needs. So, someone who is only interested in a cushy ride will probably not desire the "sports-car" handling that a more aggressive driver wants. The tire manufacturers are aware of this, and make tires for every appetite.

In terms of tread wear and road grip, there tends to be a "trade-off" factor. The grippier tires will usually have a somewhat softer tread compound, and thus, will not last as long. Conversely, the tires that are noted for the longest wear may not have as much adhesion. Of course, the design of the tread can offset both factors.

When looking at tires (whether on the Tire Rack site or at a tire dealer) the factors to look at are the UTQG (Universal Tire Quality Grade??) scores. There is a 3-digit wear rating on the sidewall, as well as an alphabetical rating for both traction and resistance to heat. The wear rating for a good quality "family sedan" tire might be as high as the 400-500 range, whereas the wear rating for a "boy-racer" type of tire might go as low as the low 100s. Again--the trade-off between long wear and high performance.

In terms of the traction and heat-resistance ratings, try to get a tire that rates an "A" in both categories. (Some performance tires actually score AA on traction). The heat resistance rating is very important, as a tire with a lower rating (B, C) will be much more prone to blow-out at high speed.

Tires also have a speed rating. S and T are more typical for "family sedan" types of tires, and indicate that they are not suited for very high speeds. As you go up in price, tires may be rated H or V. V, for instance, means that the tire is rated for 149 mph. Even if you don't intend to drive that fast (let's hope!), you should be sure that the replacement tires have at least as high a speed rating as the originals. In fact, a reputable tire dealer will not put tires on your car that have a speed rating lower than the original mfr.'s specs. This all has to do with the interrelation between the car's suspension design and the tire design.


At Costco, they also torque (tighten) the lug nuts BY HAND, to the mfr.'s specs. This is important, in order to prevent damage, as well as to insure that you can actually remove the lug nuts yourself in case of a flat. The tire places that use only impact wrenches to secure the lug nuts are known to frequently over-tighten the nuts.

well, here we go...

http://autopedia.com/bbs/tires/messages/5956.html

"He is correct in what he says to a certain extent. Tire
manufacturers make all the tires that go to the car manufacturers and
to after-market on the same machines. However, they then quality
check 100% of the produced tires, as the manufacture of tires can be
hit and miss. The best quality tires usually go to the OE
manufacturers, the next grade usually to the tire stores and the 3rd
grade usually go to the discount stores."

I hope this information is helpful. Thanks again for your e-mail,
and I hope you continue to enjoy the benefits of Consumer Reports
Online.

Customer Relations
Thanks


http://ublib.buffalo.edu/libraries/e...ds/7123-1.html



UNIFORM TIRE QUALITY GRADING…

Few consumer products on the market today offer the reliability and value of modern automobile tires. Their dependability is very high, especially considering their complexity and the demanding driving and road conditions to which they are subjected during their lifetime.

But buying new tires can be confusing. Many people rely on recommendations from service stations or tire dealers where they have been treated well in the past, buy from a store that offers a variety of brands at discount prices, or make their decisions based on loyalty to a certain manufacturer whose tires have given good service previously Regardless of where you buy them...or how much you pay...all tires sold today are required to meet federal safety standards.

Many consumers wonder what they should look for when shopping for new tires. For example, "Is a $90 tire better than a $60 one?" The answer to that question is, "Maybe, but not necessarily." Some tire buyers are likely to assume that the higher the price...the "better" the tire. Tire advertising can further complicate the decision on what tire to buy A "premium" tire from one manufacturer can be quite different from another company's "premium" tire.

The truth is, how the tire is used, your personal driving style, the type of car you drive, where you drive and what kind of tire maintenance you perform routinely can influence tire life more that the brand name and the price you paid.

Tires are designed and built with great care to provide thousands of miles of excellent service. But for maximum benefit they must be maintained properly The most important factors in tire care are:

Proper inflation pressure
Proper vehicle loading
Regular inspection
Good driving habits
Vehicle maintenance

UNIFORM TIRE QUALITY GRADING SYSTEM

The Uniform Tire Quality Grading System (UTQGS) is a tire information system designed to help buyers make relative comparisons among tires. The UTQGS is not a safety rating and not a guarantee that a tire will last for a prescribed number of miles or perform a certain way It simply gives tire buyers additional information to combine with other considerations such as price, brand loyalty and dealer recommendations. Under UTQGS, tires are graded by the manufacturers in three areas: treadwear, traction and temperature resistance.

UTQGS information is right where you need it...on the tires. The grades can be found in two places on the tire: there's a paper label affixed to the tread, and the grades are also molded into the sidewalls. Additionally brochures which explain the tire grades are available at tire stores.

TRACTION

Traction grades represent the tire's ability to stop on wet pavement as measured under controlled conditions on asphalt and concrete test surfaces. The traction grades from highest to lowest, are "AA," "A," "B," and "C." The new "AA" category makes possible the differentiation of tires with the very highest traction characteristics from those with lower traction characteristics. Tires graded "AA" should have better traction performance than tires grades "A," "B," or "C", based on straight ahead braking tests. The grades do not reflect the cornering or turning traction performance of the tires.

TEMPERATURE

Temperature grades represent the tire's resistance to heat and its ability to dissipate heat when tested under controlled laboratory test conditions. Sustained high temperature can cause the tire to deteriorate and reduce tire life, and excessive temperatures can lead to sudden tire failure. The temperature grades from highest to lowest are "A", "B", and "C". The grade "C" corresponds to the minimum performance required by the federal safety standard. Grades "B" and "A" represent higher levels of performance than the minimum required by law. The temperature grade is for a tire that is inflated properly and not overloaded. Excessive speed, under-inflation, or excessive loading, either separately or in combination, can cause heat buildup and possible tire failure.

TREADWEAR

The treadwear grade is a comparative rating based on the wear rate of the tire when tested under carefully controlled conditions. For example, a tire graded 400 should have its useful tread last twice as long as a tire graded 200. However, real world tire tread life, in miles, depends on the actual conditions of their use. Tire life is affected by variations in driving habits, service practices...such as tire rotation, wheel alignment, and maintaining proper inflation pressure...and differences in road characteristics and climate.


Common Questions

Q: What does the TRACTION grade tell me about the tire?
A: In a straight line stop, the "AA" graded tire should allow you to stop your car on wet roads in a shorter distance then tires graded "A," "B," or "C". When driving on wet roads, good traction is important to your safety. Tires graded "C" offer the least traction on wet roads.

Q: Is the ability to stop the car affected by anything besides the traction grade?
A: Yes. When the tread is badly worn, all tires lose much of their stopping ability, especially on wet roads. For safety reasons, it is important to replace tires when the built-in treadwear indicators begin to show (you will see lines across the tread) or when the grooves in the tread measure less than 1/16 of an inch deep (about the thickness of a nickel). Regardless of the traction grade, a bald tire is dangerous. Keep in mind, that properly maintained brakes are also extremely important to stopping performance.

Q: Is TRACTION improved if you let some air out of the tires, below recommended pressure?
A: No. In fact, this is a dangerous practice Under-inflation does not improve traction. It causes the tire to run hot, which can damage it and increase the risk of a blowout. It will also wear out the tread faster and reduce your car's fuel economy. Proper tire pressure information can be found in the vehicle owner's manual and on the tire information placard on the vehicle.

Q: What does the TEMPERATURE RESISTANCE grade tell me about a tire?
A: Sustained high temperatures can cause the tire material to deteriorate and excessive temperatures can lead to blowouts and tread separation. The "A" rating signifies the coolest running tire. If the vehicle and tires are maintained and operated properly, they should perform safely and reliably when run at the speed limit, even in very hot weather, "C" tires run hotter than tires graded "A," or "B," but a "C" graded tire is not "unsafe". Keep in mind that under-inflation and overloading will overheat and damage any tire and greatly increase the likelihood of a blowout

Q: What significance does the TEMPERATURE RESISTANCE grade have for me as a driver?
A: If you often drive at highway speeds for periods of an hour or more, there is less chance a cooler-running "A" graded tire will overheat than a "B" or "C" graded tire. All tires perform safely and reliably when driven at the speed limit, but the higher graded tires will give you a greater margin of safety. Your individual driving habits and the amount of time you spend driving in hot climates or at highway speeds should determine how much emphasis you put on the temperature resistance grade.

TYPICAL PASSENGER TIRE

TREADWEAR is a comparative rating based on the wear rate of the tire when tested under controlled conditions. A tire with a treadwear grade of 300 can be expected to last 50 percent longer on the government test course than a 200 treadware tire if the tire is not abused.

TRACTION is graded on four steps: AA. A. B. and C. An "AA" tire has better traction than an "A" or "B" tire. Grade "C" tires offer the least traction on wet roads.

TEMPERATURE RESISTANCE. The temperature grades of A (the highest), B, and C represent the tire's resistance to the generation of heat when tested under controlled conditions on a specified indoor laboratory test wheel. Sustained high temperature can cause the materials of the tire to deteriorate and reduce tire life, and excessive temperature can lead to sudden tire failure. The grade C corresponds to a level of performance which all passenger car tires must meet under the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 109. Grades B and A represent higher levels of performance on the laboratory test wheel than the minimum required by law.

[IMAGE of a typical tire - Listed below is information found on the sidewall of a tire]

Tire ply composition and materials used
Passenger car tire
Width of tire in millimeters
Ratio of height to width (aspect ratio)
Radial
Diameter of wheel in inches
Load index & speed symbol
US DOT safety standard certification
Tire ply composition and materials use





Q: Is the TEMPERATURE of my tires affected by anything other than the assigned grade?
A: Yes All tires will run at higher temperature when they are under-inflated or overloaded. It is very important to check the pressure of all of your tires before starting out on a trip where you will be driving at highway speed for more than an hour. Always inflate the tires to the recommended pressures before starting on the trip. This precaution will help any tire run cooler.

Q: What does the TREADWEAR grade tell me about a tire?
A: The higher the number the greater tread life you should expect. A tire with a grade of 400 should give you twice as much mileage as one rated at 200, provided that you keep the tires inflated properly, the wheels aligned and tires balanced, and drive them under normal conditions. Failure to care for your tires will greatly reduce the tread life and can also create a safety hazard. How you drive, and under what road conditions, also affects treadwear.

Q: So the TREADWEAR grade will not tell me for certain how many miles of tread life I can expect?
A: Correct. It is not a measure of the tread life. It indicates only that, under the same general conditions, one tire can be expected to produce more mileage than another, not what the mileage will be. Again, actual tread life is influenced strongly by where you live and how you drive. In some parts of the country, tires wear out faster. For example, the local rock used for road construction is rougher in some geographical areas than in others. The same tire might give 20,000 miles in one part of the country and 30,000 in another, but a tire with a higher grade should produce better tread life than a lower graded tire in either locality.

Q: Will all drivers get the same mileage on the same grade of tire?
A: No. Mileage is determined primarily by driving habits. Drivers who start off slowly can expect the best tread life. Those who consistently make "jack rabbit" starts and stops, and fast, tire-screeching turns will get the least. Studies have shown that treadwear for the same tire can be as low as 14,000 miles for some drivers, but as high as 30,000 miles for other drivers in the same geographical area. Proper maintenance is also important. Under- or over-inflation, unbalanced wheels, and wheel misalignment result in uneven treadwear that causes the tire to wear out prematurely.

Q: What do I need to know before I replace the existing tires on my vehicle?
A: Don't guess what tire is right for your vehicle. Instead, first look at the tire placard which tells you the size of the tires which were on the vehicle as original equipment. Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation, or approved options as recommended by the automobile or tire manufacturer. When buying new tires, be sure your name, address and tire identification number (DOT code) are recorded and returned to the tire manufacturer or its record-keeping designee. Tire registration will ensure that you will be notified promptly in the event the tire manufacturer needs to contact you.

DOT HS 806 805
(Revised) May 1997


http://www.myhonestmechanic.com/arti...-mileage.shtml



8. Oxygen sensors that are worn out or defective can cause poor engine performance and reduce MPG and will usually cause the check engine light to come on. The sensor is cheap and easy to replace and some mechanics replace them regardless of condition as part of regular routine maintenance.

9. An engine that is running at a colder operating temperature than it is expected to run can affect MPG. 210 degrees Fahrenheit is the normal operating temperature for a gasoline fuel injected engine. If the wrong thermostat is installed the engine will not reach 210 degrees, and a decrease in engine performance and MPG will result.

CJM

FWIW I already knew all of that and that info is correct. Tires are your lifeline in the car, you have a narrow strip of rubber and belts connecting you to the ground, dont skimp on quality.

Before I got my T100 I had a 93 Camry with the V6, while not fast from the get go you could wind it to 120+ easy. I always bought better tires, infact my last set I bought a few months before I sold it was Continental All season high performance tires with A grades of everything and low treadwear rating, but they handled great in everything and were rated to 149mph and such. I could do 70 in the rain with no issues, I drove in the snow fine, etc. This all comes at a price, these tires cost 79 each, vs the 50 or so a cheaper set would have cost me.

thook

Thanks for the input. I'm trying to decide on my next set of tires through all this. I have a couple of months, so no hurry.