What Runner do I buy 1988 or 1991???
04-09-2008, 09:22 AM
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What Runner do I buy 1988 or 1991???
Hello All, Question from a new member!
I am looking at buying 1 of 2 Runners right now and I want opinions on which is the better truck.
1988 Runner with a 6cyl std, needs body work, has a small lift, 33's and IFS. Everything but the rear window works and it needs a rad. All rust can be fixed except worried about windsheild frame rust. Engine runs well!
1991 Runner with 4cyl std, needs less body work, stock everything. Has an exhaust leak, needs brakes and rear tailgate. Engine runs well!
I am looking to run trails and want to build a Total Chaos or JD Fab front suspension on both. I would like to run 33's or 35's if good clearance and performance does not suffer. Likely Deavers in the rear unless better suggested.
Looking for help on what motor/tranny is better and which is a better off road truck?
Thanks!
I am looking at buying 1 of 2 Runners right now and I want opinions on which is the better truck.
1988 Runner with a 6cyl std, needs body work, has a small lift, 33's and IFS. Everything but the rear window works and it needs a rad. All rust can be fixed except worried about windsheild frame rust. Engine runs well!
1991 Runner with 4cyl std, needs less body work, stock everything. Has an exhaust leak, needs brakes and rear tailgate. Engine runs well!
I am looking to run trails and want to build a Total Chaos or JD Fab front suspension on both. I would like to run 33's or 35's if good clearance and performance does not suffer. Likely Deavers in the rear unless better suggested.
Looking for help on what motor/tranny is better and which is a better off road truck?
Thanks!
04-09-2008, 09:45 AM
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FYI. The 91 is a coil spring rear suspension. And the 2nd gen weighs over 4000 pounds. I would think the 1st gen is much lighter but I don't have the numbers on that. The 2nd gens weigh more than 3rd gens.
I would buy the 88 and drive the 3.0 until it broke and then swap in something else like a 3.4 when it does. I'm not a big fan of the 3.0 but a 2.4 in a 2nd gen would be unbearable.
I would buy the 88 and drive the 3.0 until it broke and then swap in something else like a 3.4 when it does. I'm not a big fan of the 3.0 but a 2.4 in a 2nd gen would be unbearable.
Last edited by Taro; 04-09-2008 at 09:52 AM.
04-09-2008, 09:52 AM
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What is the 22re? The 6cyl is 3.0 which your are saying has head gasket isses? I like the fact you can lose the roof on the 88 but for offroad ability will the Gen 2 have beter articulation? Number of doors does not matter!
04-09-2008, 10:05 AM
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Depends man
I really dont like the 3.0 (3vze) and i currently own a 1989 4runner 2.4 (22re) stick.
I would personally go with the 1988 4runner and just kill the 3.0. But first open a savings account and have fun with the 3.0 and when its dead just swap it for something better. There are a lot of mods for the 1st gen. Mine had rust in the windshield just like yours it cost me bout 150 bucks for the fix. It was done in mexico tho... cheaper labor. That was all the rust mine had. And the 1st gens are lighters. And also... do you want 4 doors? or no roof
?
I would personally go with the 1988 4runner and just kill the 3.0. But first open a savings account and have fun with the 3.0 and when its dead just swap it for something better. There are a lot of mods for the 1st gen. Mine had rust in the windshield just like yours it cost me bout 150 bucks for the fix. It was done in mexico tho... cheaper labor. That was all the rust mine had. And the 1st gens are lighters. And also... do you want 4 doors? or no roof
?
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04-09-2008, 10:07 AM
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22RE is the 4 cylinder. Both of those will be IFS so they will have similiar articulation on the trails. I would go with the '88 just because I like how the 1st gens look and because the top is removeable.
Rob
Rob
04-09-2008, 10:26 AM
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The 88 3.0 top end was just rebuilt so I hope i will have some time before it fails! For after market gear will one be cheaper then the other or have fewer options? How much lift and mods will it take for 35's or are 33's just a better option for these units?
04-09-2008, 10:37 AM
#10
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Welcome to the land of "what should I do next". I'm pretty sure that's what we're all thinking about our toys, whether they are first gens or 2nd. The first thing I suggest to you is sit in each one and think about what your getting with the body style:
88 - 2 door, removable top, lighter, classic style
91 - 4 door, many more parts donor vehicles in circulation, newer interior
Once you choose which body you want, you can then worry about the other stuff. The suspension is basically the same up front, IFS, so no issue there.
The rear is leafs vs. coils, each will require upgrades for serious offroading, yet each is sufficient for moderate trail blazing, UNLESS one is in need of immediate assistance, like sagging issues.
The motors are debateable, and you can search here for 22re vs. 3.0 and read for days and days. The bottom line for you is, is one of them in better condition now? Can you find the service history on either? Only a compression test or dyno run will really tell you, but otherwise you're comparing slow to slower. They are both good Toyota motors, they both are susceptible to HG issues if not maintained properly, or were rebuilt once with cheap parts (like my 22re apparently), and while the 3.0 does have a little more power, manipulating your tires/gearing will make that irrelevant. What I mean here is, changing gears can compensate for lack of power, when you increase tire size without regearing you'll be slower.
Speaking of which, the 91 will handle 33s stock while the 88 only 31s until you do some mod, either a little lift (body or suspension) or a little hammering to the fender wells.
The mods you can do for offroad purposes are pretty much equally available for either rig, so as far as "what can i do to her", the possibilities are endless for each.
I prefer the first gen body style, but its a beyotch to find salvage yard parts anymore. There are places to get stuff tho, like fiberglass replacement body panels, etc. you just have to search a little more.
If you don't have a preference just in looking at them, buy the healthier motor, or buy the one with less rust or frame/body issues.
I love having the top off mine, but there are many here that NEVER have removed their top.
good luck with your new truck once you decide!
88 - 2 door, removable top, lighter, classic style
91 - 4 door, many more parts donor vehicles in circulation, newer interior
Once you choose which body you want, you can then worry about the other stuff. The suspension is basically the same up front, IFS, so no issue there.
The rear is leafs vs. coils, each will require upgrades for serious offroading, yet each is sufficient for moderate trail blazing, UNLESS one is in need of immediate assistance, like sagging issues.
The motors are debateable, and you can search here for 22re vs. 3.0 and read for days and days. The bottom line for you is, is one of them in better condition now? Can you find the service history on either? Only a compression test or dyno run will really tell you, but otherwise you're comparing slow to slower. They are both good Toyota motors, they both are susceptible to HG issues if not maintained properly, or were rebuilt once with cheap parts (like my 22re apparently), and while the 3.0 does have a little more power, manipulating your tires/gearing will make that irrelevant. What I mean here is, changing gears can compensate for lack of power, when you increase tire size without regearing you'll be slower.
Speaking of which, the 91 will handle 33s stock while the 88 only 31s until you do some mod, either a little lift (body or suspension) or a little hammering to the fender wells.
The mods you can do for offroad purposes are pretty much equally available for either rig, so as far as "what can i do to her", the possibilities are endless for each.
I prefer the first gen body style, but its a beyotch to find salvage yard parts anymore. There are places to get stuff tho, like fiberglass replacement body panels, etc. you just have to search a little more.
If you don't have a preference just in looking at them, buy the healthier motor, or buy the one with less rust or frame/body issues.
I love having the top off mine, but there are many here that NEVER have removed their top.
good luck with your new truck once you decide!
04-09-2008, 10:46 AM
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Wow! Thanks TJ 884rdlx some good advice. The 88 has about 60,000 less miles and has been rebuilt however i think it may have already seen some tough trail days. They both drive well however tough to say with the 1988 as the thornbirds that are on it now ride like crap (very bouncey and shacky)!!! I like the long travel option for the IFS even though most like SAS for off road!!! I hope to hear more responses so more ideas liek yours come to my attention
04-09-2008, 11:22 AM
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I'd say go with the '88 also, but I am biased because I own one. The 3.0 has a bad reputation, but if you take care of it properly, it should do just fine. My dad has a 95 4runner with the 3.0 that has around 180,000 miles, and has only had the headgaskets replaced in the past 20,000 miles. Also, I have ridden in a '88 with the 3.0, and the extra 50 HP really is nice to have.
BTW, I would consider going with either some SSR's or TSL's depending on how often you plan to drive it on the road. Thornbirds don't do well in any category other than looks, and wear out suspension components unneccessarily.
BTW, I would consider going with either some SSR's or TSL's depending on how often you plan to drive it on the road. Thornbirds don't do well in any category other than looks, and wear out suspension components unneccessarily.
Last edited by '884Runner; 04-09-2008 at 11:29 AM.
04-09-2008, 11:41 AM
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people complain about the 3.0 I have a 89 4runner with the v6 and I have to say I like it over the 22r in my 86 truck for pulling a trailer full of fire wood the 4runner dose a much better job. I miss driving the 4runner the v6 has less power then other v6's out there but it has more then the 22r.
only thing I don't like is it is a pain to work on compared to the 22r
as for ride quality I think the first gens are just bumpy and tight I have ridden in a few and they all ride the same and all had different shock and suspension set ups.
only thing I don't like is it is a pain to work on compared to the 22r
as for ride quality I think the first gens are just bumpy and tight I have ridden in a few and they all ride the same and all had different shock and suspension set ups.
Last edited by CyMoN; 04-09-2008 at 11:44 AM.
04-09-2008, 11:41 AM
#14
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If you've got reliable history on that rebuild, that's what would sway me. I just had an HG done on my 22re last week, set me back $1300 to recondition my head, do a timing cover/chain/etc. This motor had apparently been rebuilt once, and they used a cheap brand HG. It failed.
For off-roading customization, you can mod each of these trucks equally, price and availability is comparable, because below the body they're basically the same rig. The main decision is two-door fiberglass top or 4-door solid body. With the fiberglass top off, you're bringing GVWR and the center of gravity of a 1st gen waay down, which makes rollovers less likely. But without that top on, rolling over = cargo dump! aah!
As far as SAS goes, you can do that mod to each truck, but realistically, that mod should come AFTER more important off-road mods, such as under armor skid plates/bumpers, tire upsize and appropriate regear, rear locking diff capability, etc. The additional articulation gained from SA (and the drive parts you can use with it), will be for serious rocky/gapped terrain, and you should already have armor (or just love body damage).
Take plenty of time reading this site man. Read at work. Read in the can. Read while you watch tv or hang with your sig. other. I've had my truck for about half a year now, and I spend all my free time reading old threads here, and links to 4x4wire.com and pirate4x4.com also. I learn more everyday. Just yesterday I became "clarified" on leaf springs, how they should and shouldn't look, etc. One of my favorite contributors here is AxleIke, search his posts for good advice. TC and mudhippy are also excellent sources of know-how, search them too. Take time to look for good deals on used parts from members cleaning out their stash, and read up on opinions of who's the better vendors when buying the new pricey stuff, like LC engineering and engnbldr.com, or wabfab and sonoransteel. Ebay is good for plastic cheap stuff, like corner markers, and some used parts from bigger toyota truck salvagers, but beware of chinese made front end and motor parts unless you got spares and are prepared to change them yourself, cuz you never know what their quality checks are (if any)
good luck!
For off-roading customization, you can mod each of these trucks equally, price and availability is comparable, because below the body they're basically the same rig. The main decision is two-door fiberglass top or 4-door solid body. With the fiberglass top off, you're bringing GVWR and the center of gravity of a 1st gen waay down, which makes rollovers less likely. But without that top on, rolling over = cargo dump! aah!
As far as SAS goes, you can do that mod to each truck, but realistically, that mod should come AFTER more important off-road mods, such as under armor skid plates/bumpers, tire upsize and appropriate regear, rear locking diff capability, etc. The additional articulation gained from SA (and the drive parts you can use with it), will be for serious rocky/gapped terrain, and you should already have armor (or just love body damage).
Take plenty of time reading this site man. Read at work. Read in the can. Read while you watch tv or hang with your sig. other. I've had my truck for about half a year now, and I spend all my free time reading old threads here, and links to 4x4wire.com and pirate4x4.com also. I learn more everyday. Just yesterday I became "clarified" on leaf springs, how they should and shouldn't look, etc. One of my favorite contributors here is AxleIke, search his posts for good advice. TC and mudhippy are also excellent sources of know-how, search them too. Take time to look for good deals on used parts from members cleaning out their stash, and read up on opinions of who's the better vendors when buying the new pricey stuff, like LC engineering and engnbldr.com, or wabfab and sonoransteel. Ebay is good for plastic cheap stuff, like corner markers, and some used parts from bigger toyota truck salvagers, but beware of chinese made front end and motor parts unless you got spares and are prepared to change them yourself, cuz you never know what their quality checks are (if any)
good luck!
04-09-2008, 12:00 PM
#16
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oh y'no what else if you're still undecided? go to the "gallery" section and browse trucks that are pretty much "done".
Knowing where you want to end up, is a great way to determine which direction to start out.
Taking a look at some really nice trucks of each body style should start ringing some bells in your mind, get you thinking "THAT'S what I want!" and it should make the choice easier for you.
Knowing where you want to end up, is a great way to determine which direction to start out.
Taking a look at some really nice trucks of each body style should start ringing some bells in your mind, get you thinking "THAT'S what I want!" and it should make the choice easier for you.
04-09-2008, 12:06 PM
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This is what I want so far
Total Chaos frt Suspension
Deaver Spring Rear
33-35" tires (BFG or Toyo) and gears to match with locker in the rear
ToyotaFiberglass 1/4's and tailgate to fix the rust areas
All Pro Frt and Rear bumpers with Warn Winch
Hope to add a roll cage from frt to bck and remove stock
Tcase skid (trail gear)
Intake and exhaust once researched!
Total Chaos frt Suspension
Deaver Spring Rear
33-35" tires (BFG or Toyo) and gears to match with locker in the rear
ToyotaFiberglass 1/4's and tailgate to fix the rust areas
All Pro Frt and Rear bumpers with Warn Winch
Hope to add a roll cage from frt to bck and remove stock
Tcase skid (trail gear)
Intake and exhaust once researched!
04-09-2008, 06:11 PM
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i have had 1 87 22re and now have 2 90s 22res.. the older bodystyle def had more gusto but i love my gen 2 runners... i recently got all nostalgic and wanted to sell them both to get a first gen back after i sold mine for 50 bucks many moons ago.... but after looking at pictures for months and months and months i really like the way the gen 2 looks and wouldnt trade it....
i see your in burlington.. down southern ontario we wheel almost every weekend and some 4runners and jeeps come down from hamilton and sourounding area... once your ready you should come out for some fun.. my trail rig is a few weeks away from being done.. also i know a guy in missisuga with gen 1 parts
WELCOME TO YT!
i see your in burlington.. down southern ontario we wheel almost every weekend and some 4runners and jeeps come down from hamilton and sourounding area... once your ready you should come out for some fun.. my trail rig is a few weeks away from being done.. also i know a guy in missisuga with gen 1 parts
WELCOME TO YT!
Last edited by bigt; 04-09-2008 at 06:13 PM.
04-09-2008, 06:21 PM
#20
FYI. The 91 is a coil spring rear suspension. And the 2nd gen weighs over 4000 pounds. I would think the 1st gen is much lighter but I don't have the numbers on that. The 2nd gens weigh more than 3rd gens.
I would buy the 88 and drive the 3.0 until it broke and then swap in something else like a 3.4 when it does. I'm not a big fan of the 3.0 but a 2.4 in a 2nd gen would be unbearable.
I would buy the 88 and drive the 3.0 until it broke and then swap in something else like a 3.4 when it does. I'm not a big fan of the 3.0 but a 2.4 in a 2nd gen would be unbearable.
