CoedNaked

This is for you TOYOTA because I know you are reading this:

A Toyota diesel in my opinion is worthless without a truck that can support the diesel. Diesel engines are made for economy and torque.

Toyota needs to get back to their F'in roots. That means NOT producing a pussified truck for the North American market that is merely a shadow of the trucks produced around the world.



Here is some design advice:

Take an 89-95 Toyota xtracab Pickup. Lengthen the wheel base by 6 inches. Leave the bed length the same as the 89-95 Toyota Pickup, but put that 6 inches from the lengthened wheel base into the extra cab of the truck, and give it access cab style doors. Give it a nice sort of rear bench type seat that is similar to the type of seats found on 2000 to 2006 access cab Tundras, but make it slightly more reclined. This way you have workable seats in the rear that may not be neccessarily as roomy as far as leg room as the 01-04 Double Cab Tacomas, but you don't have an overly long truck, and you have something that is practical and workable should you need to move 4people in a reasonably comfortable manner or haul with a 75 inch, 6 foot 3 inch, long bed.

Give this truck a fully boxed frame similar to that found on 89-95 Pickups. Give this frame the capability to tow 5000 pounds, and a legal payload of 1500-1700 pounds. The trucks width should be the same or maybe 1-2" wider than the 89-95 Pickups.

Mechanically engine wise I think a diesel engine that is maybe an inline 4 cylinder that has relatively large displacement with about 200 HP and 300 foot pounds of torque would be an absolute killer. You would have the little truck that could. The little truck that could tow, the little truck that could move people, the little truck that could get great gas mileage. Revamp the R150 5 speed manual with heavier duty parts to handle the increased torque of this engine, and give it a gear driven transfer case, and you will have a winner.

Offer the truck in a regular cab configuration, or the longer xtracab/access cab type configuration (read: more leg room/useable space for seating) I suggested above.

As far as styling, the 89-95 Pickups, and the 96-04 Tacoma's were very good looking trucks in general. Take your styling cues from these trucks with a more modern, yet still somewhat conservative but solid looking edge. Perhaps you can "amalgamate" these designs into one truck design, but it doesn't need to reflect the pussification that has gone on over the years leading to the pavement princess 2005+ TAcoma's. Don't get me wrong - the '05 Tacoma's are powerful trucks, that can tow well and move people, but they are no haulers - they still won't haul like an 89-95 Pickup can because they dont' have the frame, or the "overbuiltedness" (if that's a word) that these previous generations had in my opinion.

da_bigg_wigg

hear freakin hear is all i gotta say! the newest tacos just don't feel like yotas, and the tundra looks so much like a dodge that it's embarrasing...

the_gunslinger

nice rant.

yea, they need to bring back the style. but, why not make trucks look good again? round headlights & tube bumpers. i'm not much of a diesel guy, but i wouldn't mind a 5.7/5speed (6 spd?) 'heritage' xxrunner.4wd IFS.

aviator

I agree with coed... but why not just scrap the whole tacoma line and give us the hilux they sell to the rest of the world? It has a sweet diesel, descent load ratings etc. and is still built in Tarhana Japan... not that I'm against NA auto workers lol but so far as the trucks go the quality just does'nt "feel" the same...
And for cripes sake if yota does go with this idea when you import them call them HILUX!
rant over...

CJM

I love your idea, but if it happens I'll eat my hat.

I would prefer a T100 sized truck, just big enough to handle the weight and loads and a much roomier truck. If they made the xtra cab space 6 inches longer and put good seats in them with an access door they would be the ultimate medium duty truck.

Island_Yota

Or atleast let Canada have Hilux's, Seems like we always get forgotten, Totally different market than the U.S.

I think they basically just need an updated version of the First gen 4x4, The styling was Excellent, IMO the best looking trucks ever made. Even just cues from it like the big round flared fenders, the body lines, similar grille and headlight setup just updated... Oh and especially THE SIZE! A little bigger is fine, Blow it up to the size of an FJ and no one will want it.

Everything I want in a truck:

Single cab(Optional Extra cab like the 3rd gens had)
Fuel injected 4cyl(Aka 2.7L)
Optional Diesel(anything will do!)
5spd Standard
Selectable 4wd(Shifter, no buttons) none of this full time buisness either!
Manual locking hubs
Sliding rear window
Bed with hooks on the outer edge(Just like a first gen box)
Solid front axle(yeah right)
Power steering with a decent set up.
Some kind of radio, AM/FM with a Cd player and 2-4 speakers
Ground clearance, No valance things hanging down in the front!(think chevy)
^ good Approach and departure angles too!
Tilt steering wheel and sliding bucket seats
Boxed frame and an optional Heavy duty suspension package
Vent windows(Yeah right again, I love them though!)
A good heater, I dont care about cold air thats what all the windows are for!
Decent tire package from the factory, maybe BFG A/T's in the 31" range?



No ones gonna expect it to be a luxury vehicle for $18 000, I think they would do great advertised as a commercial vehicle or just a tough bare bones truck for a reasonable price, Who else offers that? Who offers a small diesel pickup in Canada? No one! Im sure they could come up with a creative marketing scheme for such a truck and they would sell like crazy! The Tacoma is just way out of alot of peoples price range and alot of people dont want all it has to offer.

Why dont they offer it? I dont know, I wasnt really surprised when the new Tundra came out after the Titan came out, I knew Toyota would follow I think they need to bring back the Mini truck, maybe even a Trekker style model to compete with Jeep.

Trumpfan

The design mentioned sounds nice, but will probably never happen.

I'd be satisfied with a current model Hilux with the D4-D engine or even the LandCruiser pickup everybody else in the world gets but us.

Godzilla

it would be great to give consumers what they want, and to keep to what made them a great company to begin with. However, they are going to bomb out just like the big 3 are now, and honda will take over number 1 eventually since they seem the most consistent. Toyota is building everything bigger and crappier quality as of late. Slowly starting to follow in the footsteps of the domestics.. Im sure they will come out with some vehicles shortly with names like Rave, or Radical. or some other gimmicky one hit wonder vehicle.

HuskyRunner

They're building 'em bigger and crappier because that's what people want. Look at all of the people out there that pay a ton of money, for a huge, disposable truck. It's ridiculous! If Toyota brought in some of the trucks the rest of the world gets they'd sell a bunch, but lots of people would look at the and say "that's too small" North Americans are obsesed with Bigger=Better, and that's the reason for trucks like the new Tundra.
I say, bring back the 1st gen pickups, with a diesel, like out of the early 80's LC's, with a reasonable price tag. No re-designing, no nothing, just pull the old molds out of storage and start building 'em. I'd buy one. It doesn't have to go fast, just anywhere I point it. Reliable and tough. because right now they are trying to play the Domestic game by going bigger. Stick with what you know, smaller, and tougher.

CoedNaked

I was sitting in my truck one morning outside of plumbing school reading before the school opens, and an older guy knocks on my windshield. He was asking about my truck. He said he used to have a 4runner and it would "go anywhere," and he's looking at a truck like mine or a 96-04 Tacoma. He asked what my opinion was. He said he used to drive a domestic but they are just too big, and the Fords too unreliable. I said if he wanted a truck that could haul confidently a reasonably good sized camper, an 89-95 would be it. Even an 86-88 would work too, because of the boxed frame. He said he needs something narrower as it's often just him or him and his fishing buddy or him and his wife, because going down logging roads and bushed over roads it makes a difference. He needed something stout - why a fully boxed frame is good - both for hauling and for offroading. Now if he had a diesel, he would have economy too.

It is obvious that Americans and to a lesser degree, Canadians, wnat bigger trucks. We are the fattest bloody people on earth. But there are still hardcore outdoor enthusiasts who don't need that. They want something that has good "bones" if that makes sense, and that gets the job done.
If Toyota created a truck like this, all they would have to do advertising wise is start mentioning things like "off the beaten path fishing spots," and hunting spots, and far off camping spots. Give the diesel some simplicity - for example make it so simple, that if you lost all your electrical, the thing would still get you home (much like the mid 80's and earlier Landcruiser diesels) becuase it doesn't need spark obviously as it's a diesel. Show guys towing boats or hauling boats out into the outdoors. Mention the price point, and talk about the economy of a 4 cyl diesel or a 4 cylinder gas engine and how it will pay for itself over the years. Mention that this thing rides like a truck because it's heavy duty, and is built to be taken off the beaten path if needed, or it can tow a reasonable sized boat or trailer if needed.

HuskyRunner

Dude, I think you just wrote them a new ad campaign. Simple, tough, reliable, affordable, and for the marketing people - just talk about how much greener diesel is, and how it'll go anywhere. Enjoy nature, without leaving a lasting impression. Soccer mom's like to be able to go anywhere - the mall, ballet, soccer...

Island_Yota

They are coming out with big crappy vehicles for North America, but look what they offer in other parts of the world.. It almost isnt fair.

My biggest complaint with trucks right now is how they have turned into luxury vehicles, I dont know many people that can afford a $60 000+ truck that drives like a really big car, The tacoma and frontier are pretty much the only new trucks id even considor, but they arent anywhere close to what I want.

Octane

Not sure if you all are aware of this or not, but last year Toyota was talking about coming out with a truck that is smaller than the current Tacoma.
They said that a lot of people liked the smaller truck and that they might go that route in the future.
I could do without a diesel though. Too expensive to manufacture, too expensive to maintain and too much of a hassle.
Give me the current 2.7L 4-banger in a smaller chassis with a manual (lever on the floor) transfer case, manual locking hubs, solid-axle front and rear and a manual tranny and Id be a happy man.
Dont get me wrong, I love the current generation Tacoma and will be in the market for a good used on in a couple years when my F-150 has 200K miles on it, but in a way I long for the older, smaller, simpler, less expensive Toyota trucks of the '80s and '90s.
Im single and I own a house, so to lay down $25,000-$30,000 for a decently-equipped midsize 4x4 truck to me is kinda crazy. I mean, back in '98 I bought a '91 4Runner (4x4, V6, auto tranny) that had 100,000 miles on it and I dont think I paid over $10,000 for it. Nowdays you couldnt touch a 4Runner like that for under $27,000.
Thats mostly why I drive a Ford now. I couldnt have touched a Tundra for anywhere near what the F-150 cost me. I love Toyotas and would love to be a Toyota owner again, but my love for Toyotas doesnt pay the car payment every month.

Jay351

I 100% agree with you bud!

Just one thing to change. optional 4.0L DOHC v8

bigtrucknwheels

haha, i guess a bunch of us think along the same lines. I've been tinkering with photoshop building a concept truck. Its fugly, as its my first time using photoshop. But yeah, i was thinking, 3rzfe 5 speed 4wd manual hubs, chain driven transfer as the drive train for the base truck, with the 4.0 thats in the tacoma now as one of 2 engine upgrades. drive line should be the same for that too, simple is better. The third engine should def. be a diesel, with right around 200 hp, and 300ft-lb of torque. that SOB would RIP!

ewong

Ya mean make a true MINI truck (aka 84-88 sized) versus the current Taco which is the size of a MID sized Dakota was circa 88?

Octane

At the time, the talk was that they were considering making both a compact and a midsize.

CJM

A diesel is very simple to maintain and whatnot, whomever said it wasnt hasnt ever driven or worked on one.

There is a reason big rigs can have over a million miles on the engine and drivetrain without a rebuild ya know.

CoedNaked

Yeah the only problem with the "SCION" compact truck I keep hearing about them potentially making is:

1) It doesn't have Toyota on the hood, it's a scion

2) Rumours are this compact truck will be a unibody

3) No diesel rumour

4) No mention of links to heritage or truck lineage.


Toyota basically invented the compact truck. They pioneered it and perfected it. Yeah the Ranger came along and began selling in better numbers, but the Ranger is no Toyota compact truck.

aviator

It's whats inside that counts...

and I still say that Scion Krullstar-esque emblem is kind of cool looking...

...does anybodyelse remember the movie Krull besides me?