paddlenbike

iTrader: (1)

There is a huge difference in quality between the Japanese-built, fully boxed Hilux frame versus the Tacoma's Dana frame--the bed hits the back of the cab when carrying heavy bed loads or when offroading; my 1994 Xtra Cab never did this.

Flamedx4

That is true, the H3 uses the Colorado frame and running gear, including engine. The H2 is just an Avalanche underneath, unless it has the optional air suspension. The H1 is still unique - but geez, if I wanted to drive a monstrosity that size I'd get a '53 Buick Roadmaster...

spindleshanks

I don't know how comfortable I am with the GM content in my Taco, but that's the auto industry for ya. I do, however, find it awesome that Dana had a hand in the Tacoma frame. Dana (my employer) also pioneered Hydroforming, using fluid pressure to make stronger chassis. They've been designing Corvette chassis with GM for years, going back at least to the beginning of the C5, and on through the C6 generation Vette. Like you mentioned, they also build pretty much all the frames/unibody for Chrysler/Jeep, including Dodge trucks. Their new chassis on the redesigned Dakota was supposed to be afeat of engineering, with its high strength, low weight, etc. Dana is so huge they make frames/chassis for every mfr at some point or other. Victor Reinz gaskets, Perfect Circle piston rings, Clevite Bearings are all Dana.

mt_goat

I used to work for Dana too.

Bumpin' Yota

one interesting thing to note....

Pontiac's Vibe (GM division) is the same vehicle as the Toyota Matrix!

Dont believe me? Go pull the radio out of a Toyota Matrix and take a look. You wont be buying a toyota 1761 or 8113 harness for that matrix but rather a GM 2003 AND a GM 40GM10 antenna adapter!

I saw that when I was putting a HU in a Matrix and sat there for a few moments absolutely disgusted with toyota...

The only thing good GM has made thus far are the Gen IV small blocks (non-siamesed exahust ports) and the later model 3.8L blocks.

blown4runner96

yeah your right, GM and Toyota went in together with the Matrix and Vibe... and the new Rav4s just hit our lot and we find a very high resemblance to the new Pontiac Tourant or what ever the ˟˟˟˟ they are calling it...

ha, thinking about it and I realized that some of the older Jeeps have Toyota transmissions... LMAO I am not sure what they are doing currently but a few months ago one of the techs had a Cherokee in the air and noticed part number, etc that identified it as a Toyota part... irony

spindleshanks

Some of the Jeeps also had notoriously bad Peugeot transmissions. Hell, the Pontiac GTO has been sold under the Holden nameplate for years in Australia before being introduced here, the Cadillac Catera was an Opel, and That Geo sedan was a Toyota Corrola. What a messed up automotive world we live in..can you imagine being an average Joe off the street not knowing a damn thing about the industry? You'd just believe what they tell you.
It's the same way with motor oil. There are so many lies and half-truths and urban legends out there about oil that are perpetuated by marketing and by shadetree mechanics. Like Pennzoil has such a bad rap for causing sludge, but this is just the result of decades of smear tactics by other oil companies. Pennzoil is the whipping boy, because they are the only oil co. which consistently has a double digit market share in the states. And Castrol "Drive Hard"...they don't even refine oil at all! They're just a packager that gets their oil from the lowest bidder!
you really gotta watch your step out there!

blown4runner96

True... There are a lot of mixed up and messed up things in the automotive industry that your average joe is totally unaware of. They listen to what they hear from advertisements, etc and take it to heart. Bottom line is there are a lot of unerlying issues that people don't see and these mis-leading notions determine how the market goes...

Radyota

The first Pontiac Sunfire/90's Chevy Cavaliers were sold in Japan as the TOYOTA Cavalier! Ever notice on those body style cars that the gas door is on the passenger side? That's to accomodate the right-hand drive, and ease of refueling for the japanese. Also, per japanese regulations, the exhaust system is bolted together with flanges and gaskets, and exits straight back past the bumper. The Olds Alero is also the same platform. It seems like any japanese import, or cars to be marketed in Japan, all have their gas doors on the passenger's side.

dgold

I had a '00 Taco, and now a '99 4Runner. I personally can't tell the difference in fit & finish. I think as long as toyota specs the parts and holds the supplier to the specs, than it's a toyota part. Coming from a manufacturing background myself, and watching a lot of parts as well as finished products coming out of the states, Mexico, Eastern Europe, and China, what I've found is that the parts are the same if you hold the suppliers to the same tolerances. The trouble comes when you allow the vendor to deviate from the print (the spec), or use their "off the shelf" (i.e. another customer's spec) part instead of yours.

I know a vendor in China that makes (I should say made - I don't know if they still do) electronic equipment for some VERY high-end brands as well as some Wal-Mart house brand stuff. There's a huge difference in quality -- but they build for the customer -- so they build very very low end to very high end.

At the end of the day, I have no problem with a GM supplier making parts for my Toyota as long as it's a "Toyota" quality part. I also have no problem with my Toyota having the same part as the GM (take an alternator for instance) as long as it's GM accepting the Toyota quality spec and not visa-versa.

In the case of a wire harnes (mentioned above) I have no doubt the GM wire harness is well made. But I trust the Toyota designers to do a better job of making sure that the wire harness isn't pinched or stressed once it's installed in the car, whereas I'd worry that GM may have it up against a bare metal edge or something.

Sorry for the long rant... Just my 2¢ worth of experience.

Flamedx4

Regarding the Aisin 5 speed transmission - it is very common. The 5 speed jeeps after about 97 all use it, the new Pontiac Solstice/ Saturn Sky use it. The Colorado uses it. The H3 uses it. Plus many more. By the way it is not technically a Toyota transmission. Toyota doesn't (directly at least) even own a piece of Aisin-Warner that I could discover. (See below) The Aisin company that makes the hubs for example is a different company that Toyota does own.

REgarding the TAco chassis. Dana builds it under contract - made in USA to save money and satisfy the nip-haters... Most of the US made Yotas are now engineered thru joint ventures as well as US manufactured. And they do a nice job with it too. The money from Toyota surely helped many companies modernize and expand their capabilities, a good thing dontcha think? At least it's not made in Mexico...

Yep, and that's 99% of the buying public. To quote one of my favorite movies "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public!"

I had a neighbor with a Nova (86-87ish?) and he got pissed off at me enough to nearly come to blows when I told him it was a Toyota. Geez - it said Toyota on the damned engine! Most people are shocked to learn how many "American" vehicles were rebadged - and there were some imports too. Fer gosssake, nearly all the compact cars ever sold by Chrysler were Mitsubishi's until the Neon. There were only a few American made ones, and they can be remembered by their poor quality. GM and Ford failed miserably with their own early attempts at small cars (Vega, Pinto) so turned to the imports (Suzuki& Toyota for Chevy, Daewoo for Pontiac, Mitubishi and Mazda for Ford, etc. GM & Ford have done this since the early 70s - the list is HUGE, but keeping it to trucks - Remember the Chevy LUV (Isuzu)? and the Ford Courier (Toyo Kogo Limited, AKA Mazda)? and the Dodge D50 (Mitsubishi)? Seems Datsuns and Toyotas weren't unmarketable POSs after all, were they? Funny thing was that by importing and rebadging these imports, they actually helped establish their excellent reputations in this country and ultimately probably lost more than they gained.

Nowadays most are joint venture vehicles, the lines are blurring more all the time, A owns B who owns part of C which is also partly owned by D who is the avowed mortal enemy of A... Riiiight... Smoke and mirrors.


The Toyota Group contains the following companies, in order of founding:

Toyoda Boshoku Co., Ltd. (founded January 1918, merged with Toyota Motor Co. November 1943, became independent again in May 1950 as Minsei Spinning Co., Ltd., changed name to Toyoda Boshoku Co. in August 1967, merged with Toyota Kako Co., Ltd. October 2000)
Toyoda Automatic Loom Works, Ltd., now called Toyota Industries Co. (founded November 1926)
Toyota Motor Co., Ltd. (founded August 1937)
Aichi Steel Works, Ltd. (founded March 1940)
Toyoda Machine Works, Ltd. (founded May 1941)
Kanto Auto Works, Ltd. (founded July 1942)
Toyota Auto Body, Ltd. (founded August 1945)
Toyoda Tsusho Kaisha, Ltd., now called Toyota Tsusho Co. (founded July 1948
Aisin Seiki Co., Ltd. (founded June 1949)
Toyoda Gosei Co., Ltd. (founded July 1949)
Nippondenso Co., Ltd., now called Denso Co. (founded December 1949)
Toyota Motor Sales Co., Ltd. (founded April 1950, merged with Toyota Motor Corp. July 1982)
Toyoda Spinning & Weaving Co., Ltd. (founded May 1950)
Towa Real Estate Co., Ltd. (Founded August 1953)
Toyota Central Research and Development Laboratories, Inc. (founded November 1960)
Hino Motors, Ltd. (founded October 1966)
Daihatsu Motor Co., Ltd. (founded November 1967)

kyle_22r

in fact, most of your "toyota"(at least older ones like mine) are mostly cobbled together with parts from other manufacturers. the transmissions, t-cases, and possibly axles are built by ASCO, and most every electric component is made by denso.

a jeep is almost always put together with other manufacturers parts. there was no "jeep" engine until 1987(when the 4.0L was introduced in the XJ). every engine jeep used were from other manufacturers -- willys(134 go devil I4), kaiser(230 OHC I6), buick(225 V6, 350 V8), AMC(150 I4, 232, 258 I6, 304, 360, 401 V8), nash(327 V8), chevy(153 I4, 2.8l V6) and some others i've probably forgotten about.

transmissions -- almost every make, especially in the 80s. there's jeeps that came from the factory with AMC engines and chevy trannies, chevy engines and ford trannies etc.

awsumdc

I have both a 2004 4Runner sport 4.7 and a 2005 Tacoma sport solid axle edition tacoma and I have to say that the 4Runner does have better fit and finish in the body and interior but the rest of the vehicle is the same as my Taco except for the solid axle up front and the Dana 60 in the rear

Crux

That 4Runner looks like it's longing for a SAS as well :p