Composite Winch Mount Bumper - Senior Design Project - Page 2

enthdigry · 02-28-2008, 05:25 PM

IFL later when I can see pics

I am an ME myself and have done quite a bit of composite work.

thefallman · 02-28-2008, 05:51 PM

Might want to Use steel instead of aluminum on your mounting locations, if those locations are incontact with carbon fiber, As carbon fiber and Aluminum do not get along well and tend to break each other down.

Erich_870 · 02-29-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefallman

Might want to Use steel instead of aluminum on your mounting locations, if those locations are in contact with carbon fiber, As carbon fiber and Aluminum do not get along well and tend to break each other down.

That's something I didn't know. What in carbon fiber reacts with aluminum? Something in the resin?

Erich

enthdigry · 02-29-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefallman

Might want to Use steel instead of aluminum on your mounting locations, if those locations are incontact with carbon fiber, As carbon fiber and Aluminum do not get along well and tend to break each other down.

As long as you have a good layer of adhesive you shouldnt have a problem. Also if the layup is done correctly there should be minimal carbon-to-aluminum contact anyway because of the resin.

Looking in my corrosion book graphite is about as noble as you can get in Potential and Aluminum is pretty damn reactive so I guess you are right. If you aluminum is anodized or chem filmed, this should help out quite a bit.

Titanium and Aluminum is another bad combo

thefallman · 03-02-2008, 12:40 AM

yes it is, btw from what ive read anodized aluminum in carbon layups is one way of solving it the other was to use a layer of glass between the carbon and aluminum

Erich_870 · 03-03-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefallman

yes it is, BTW from what I've read anodized aluminum in carbon layups is one way of solving it the other was to use a layer of glass between the carbon and aluminum

Quote:

Originally Posted by enthdigry

As long as you have a good layer of adhesive you shouldn't have a problem. Also if the layup is done correctly there should be minimal carbon-to-aluminum contact anyway because of the resin.

Looking in my corrosion book graphite is about as noble as you can get in Potential and Aluminum is pretty damn reactive so I guess you are right. If you aluminum is anodized or chem filmed, this should help out quite a bit.

Titanium and Aluminum is another bad combo

Ya learn something new everyday!

Anodized aluminum plates on a carbon fiber bumper just sounds cooler anyway!

Erich

Erich_870 · 03-12-2008, 04:22 PM

Any progress?

Erich

4Rocker · 03-12-2008, 04:54 PM

Actually quite a bit of progress! We got a prototype made last week, but I have been pretty busy with other stuff lately. I will have a writeup and pictures up soon!

4Rocker · 03-15-2008, 08:56 AM

FINALLY! I have some spare time to post up our progress! Last week was very busy as you will see in the following pictures.

First: The good people at Smittybilt were kind enough to donate an XRC-8 winch to our design team! A BIG thanks to them!

To make the spool control more accessible in the bumper, I removed the transmission section of the winch and by removing the 10 small allen screws was able to clock the housing a few degrees.

Next Episode: Prototype construction

4Rocker · 03-15-2008, 09:11 AM

Last week over spring break I stuck around campus and completed the prototype for our support section. This prototype was made of a thin 10 layers of fiberglass prepreg. Prior to layup, we coated the steel tooling with a special polymer mold release to allow the part to come off the tool once cured.

We began the layup with 10 plies of a reinforcing strip, and then alternated between two different patterns (5 plies each) to obtain the necessary thickness. The following picture shows the reinforcing strips applied under the first main layer.

Once all of the plies were applied, thin steel caul plates were attached to help give a smooth finish on the outside surfaces.

Next, the part was vacuum bagged and was made ready to go in the autoclave (basically a big pressure cooker).

After the part cured and the processing materials were removed, this is what we got:

We used the previously installed air fitting on the tool to pop the part off about 4 inches, but this was not enough. It was determined that we may not have incorporated quite enough draft into the tooling to allow it to come off easily, and our solution to this will be shown in a future post. In the meantime, to get this part off we had to slit one of the corners a few inches,and here is the resulting part:

Being only 10 plies thick (about 0.1"), the part is fairly flimsy and has a feel similar to cardboard. Holes were then drilled both to mount it to the truck and to the winch, and here is the result:

And finally, with the winch installed:

We were all surprised that such a flimsy structure was able to hold such a heavy winch on its own. Once it was bolted up to the truck's frame, it really stiffened up the whole part and made it quite strong. ']

Next episode: tooling modifications

4Rocker · 03-17-2008, 06:50 AM

Some updates have been made to the tooling. Update and pics coming soon!

Erich_870 · 03-19-2008, 08:43 PM

Great pics, keep em coming

Erich

4Rocker · 03-28-2008, 07:32 AM

I have made changes to the tooling to allow for more of a draft angle, but I dont have any good pics to post up at this point. The top edge of the part has been sloped by about 3/8".

I have also begun the construction of a test fixture to attach the next carbon fiber prototype to an Instron test machine to evaluate its tensile strength. More pics will come!

4Rocker · 04-06-2008, 09:01 AM

Yesterday we completed a full-scale part made of 32 plies of carbon fiber. It turned out very impressive! Pics coming soon!

Jeenyus04 · 04-06-2008, 10:03 PM

I want to see them!

Jerm · 04-06-2008, 10:17 PM

This is a very nice project, I will be watching for updates.

4Rocker · 04-08-2008, 04:07 PM

FINALLY! The time for more pictures has come!

As was mentioned before, a small amount of draft was incorporated into the tooling, and we made an actual part with 32 plies of carbon prepreg. On to the pics!

32 plies of carbon cut to pattern - this takes FOREVER to do by hand

Prepreg laid up on the tooling

Part and process materials after autoclaving. Green is the vacuum bag material and the white is a cotton bleeder cloth.

Processing materials removed, caul plates visible (these were used to allow for a smooth surface texture)

Caul plates removed: Success!

Part removed from tooling with the use of the air fitting that was welded to the inside of the tooling. This allowed for one-person removal of the part.

The excess still needs to be trimmed to make it fit and look pretty.

Close up of surface finish on the front face

Currently the part is being trimmed with a cutoff wheel to prevent delamination and drilled to mount the winch and truck mounts. This thing is SOLID! I can stand on it and there is absolutely no deflection in the part.

After trimming part of the excess material, part thickness was measured to be 0.28 to 0.30 inches, which is slightly more than the planned 0.25, but it is ok for this part. All in all a successful weekend! I also was offered a composites job in WV, so also be on the lookout for an FJ Cruiser in the future...

Coming soon: Whole unit tensile testing!

1eye · 04-08-2008, 04:37 PM

One of the coolest threads I've read in a long time. Keep the posts coming.

ps, what kind of weight are we talking here, besides super light?

4Rocker · 04-08-2008, 04:56 PM

I think that when trimmed it might be somewhere in the 18lb range w/o winch...I will find out the actual weight as soon as trimming and drilling is complete!

Erich_870 · 04-09-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Rocker

02-28-2008, 05:51 PM	#27 (permalink)
thefallman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Walla Walla, WA Posts: 475	Might want to Use steel instead of aluminum on your mounting locations, if those locations are incontact with carbon fiber, As carbon fiber and Aluminum do not get along well and tend to break each other down. __________________ ~Brian 89 Ex-Cab 3.4 Conv. T100 Tranny Yep i Changed it. Soon to be Supercharged. 90 4runner 3.0 Auto (Wifes Toy) I sold the HEEP I Havent finished my writeup but till i do heres a link to Mt_Goats write up http://www.yotatech.com/f116/3-4-swap-started-82145/ between him and i and a few others on here we should beable to answer most questions.

03-02-2008, 12:40 AM	#30 (permalink)
thefallman Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Walla Walla, WA Posts: 475	yes it is, btw from what ive read anodized aluminum in carbon layups is one way of solving it the other was to use a layer of glass between the carbon and aluminum __________________ ~Brian 89 Ex-Cab 3.4 Conv. T100 Tranny Yep i Changed it. Soon to be Supercharged. 90 4runner 3.0 Auto (Wifes Toy) I sold the HEEP I Havent finished my writeup but till i do heres a link to Mt_Goats write up http://www.yotatech.com/f116/3-4-swap-started-82145/ between him and i and a few others on here we should beable to answer most questions.

03-12-2008, 04:22 PM	#32 (permalink)
Erich_870 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 970	Any progress? Erich __________________ 99' Black 4Runner with Highlander Package 16x8 black ProComp 1069 alloy wheels, Thule MOAB rack My Profile My Hobbies

03-12-2008, 04:54 PM	#33 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	Actually quite a bit of progress! We got a prototype made last week, but I have been pretty busy with other stuff lately. I will have a writeup and pictures up soon! __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts

03-15-2008, 08:56 AM	#34 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	FINALLY! I have some spare time to post up our progress! Last week was very busy as you will see in the following pictures. First: The good people at Smittybilt were kind enough to donate an XRC-8 winch to our design team! A BIG thanks to them! To make the spool control more accessible in the bumper, I removed the transmission section of the winch and by removing the 10 small allen screws was able to clock the housing a few degrees. Next Episode: Prototype construction __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts

02-28-2008, 05:25 PM	#26 (permalink)
enthdigry Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ventura, CA Posts: 6	IFL later when I can see pics I am an ME myself and have done quite a bit of composite work.

03-15-2008, 09:11 AM	#35 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	Last week over spring break I stuck around campus and completed the prototype for our support section. This prototype was made of a thin 10 layers of fiberglass prepreg. Prior to layup, we coated the steel tooling with a special polymer mold release to allow the part to come off the tool once cured. We began the layup with 10 plies of a reinforcing strip, and then alternated between two different patterns (5 plies each) to obtain the necessary thickness. The following picture shows the reinforcing strips applied under the first main layer. Once all of the plies were applied, thin steel caul plates were attached to help give a smooth finish on the outside surfaces. Next, the part was vacuum bagged and was made ready to go in the autoclave (basically a big pressure cooker). After the part cured and the processing materials were removed, this is what we got: We used the previously installed air fitting on the tool to pop the part off about 4 inches, but this was not enough. It was determined that we may not have incorporated quite enough draft into the tooling to allow it to come off easily, and our solution to this will be shown in a future post. In the meantime, to get this part off we had to slit one of the corners a few inches,and here is the resulting part: Being only 10 plies thick (about 0.1"), the part is fairly flimsy and has a feel similar to cardboard. Holes were then drilled both to mount it to the truck and to the winch, and here is the result: And finally, with the winch installed: We were all surprised that such a flimsy structure was able to hold such a heavy winch on its own. Once it was bolted up to the truck's frame, it really stiffened up the whole part and made it quite strong. '] Next episode: tooling modifications __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts

03-17-2008, 06:50 AM	#36 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	Some updates have been made to the tooling. Update and pics coming soon! __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts

03-19-2008, 08:43 PM	#37 (permalink)
Erich_870 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 970	Great pics, keep em coming Erich __________________ 99' Black 4Runner with Highlander Package 16x8 black ProComp 1069 alloy wheels, Thule MOAB rack My Profile My Hobbies

03-28-2008, 07:32 AM	#38 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	I have made changes to the tooling to allow for more of a draft angle, but I dont have any good pics to post up at this point. The top edge of the part has been sloped by about 3/8". I have also begun the construction of a test fixture to attach the next carbon fiber prototype to an Instron test machine to evaluate its tensile strength. More pics will come! __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts

04-06-2008, 09:01 AM	#39 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	Yesterday we completed a full-scale part made of 32 plies of carbon fiber. It turned out very impressive! Pics coming soon! __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts

04-06-2008, 10:03 PM	#40 (permalink)
Jeenyus04 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: washington Posts: 141	I want to see them! __________________ 85 reg cab s/b, rebuilt 22r, .040 over bore, engnbldr's crawler cam, no cat w/ flo-pro (was on it). tg 5 inch lift. 35 baja claws bright green paint, sliders, custom front bumper, miller rear locker --project-- 02 dodge extended cab s/b, black sport, 24 vavle cummins, 35's, 4 inch exhaust, edge ez

04-06-2008, 10:17 PM	#41 (permalink)
Jerm Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 147	This is a very nice project, I will be watching for updates. __________________ Just my thought. 96 4runner SR5, 3.4, Auto, B&M trans cooler, H4 H.I.D. conversion

04-08-2008, 04:07 PM	#42 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	FINALLY! The time for more pictures has come! As was mentioned before, a small amount of draft was incorporated into the tooling, and we made an actual part with 32 plies of carbon prepreg. On to the pics! 32 plies of carbon cut to pattern - this takes FOREVER to do by hand Prepreg laid up on the tooling Part and process materials after autoclaving. Green is the vacuum bag material and the white is a cotton bleeder cloth. Processing materials removed, caul plates visible (these were used to allow for a smooth surface texture) Caul plates removed: Success! Part removed from tooling with the use of the air fitting that was welded to the inside of the tooling. This allowed for one-person removal of the part. The excess still needs to be trimmed to make it fit and look pretty. Close up of surface finish on the front face Currently the part is being trimmed with a cutoff wheel to prevent delamination and drilled to mount the winch and truck mounts. This thing is SOLID! I can stand on it and there is absolutely no deflection in the part. After trimming part of the excess material, part thickness was measured to be 0.28 to 0.30 inches, which is slightly more than the planned 0.25, but it is ok for this part. All in all a successful weekend! I also was offered a composites job in WV, so also be on the lookout for an FJ Cruiser in the future... Coming soon: Whole unit tensile testing! __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts

04-08-2008, 04:37 PM	#43 (permalink)
1eye Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: N 53 - 29 - * Location: W 113 - 49 - * Posts: 129	One of the coolest threads I've read in a long time. Keep the posts coming. ps, what kind of weight are we talking here, besides super light? __________________ Phase 1: rebuild engine $ Phase 2: winch and custom bumpers $ Phase 3: 33" tires $ Phase 4: 4 inch lift $ Phase 5: locker$ Phase 6: snorkel Phase 7: body armour Phase 8: Bushwacker fender flares Phase 9: hmmm My favourite new toy is a 1" impact gun [1200+ ft lb of torque] :D

04-08-2008, 04:56 PM	#44 (permalink)
4Rocker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 376	I think that when trimmed it might be somewhere in the 18lb range w/o winch...I will find out the actual weight as soon as trimming and drilling is complete! __________________ 84 4Runner SR5 22R, 5spd, 31" BFG ATs,custom bumpers 08 FJ Cruiser Sandstorm, 6MT, All-Terrain Package, Rock Rails, BFG A/Ts