Newbie SAS questions
01-11-2007, 02:51 PM
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Newbie SAS questions
I've done some research but it seems some things are assumed... If anyone has some good links on SAS I would appreciate it. Most of the ones here are build-ups and assume some base of knowledge that I don't have.
1. The front and rear gears have to match, correctly? IE 4.88 in front means 4.88 in rear.
2. What is a dual tranny? Does that mean you have 2 transfer cases that gear down so you can move more slowly at the same engine RPM?
3. I keep hearing that my stock 4.88 gears are special in that I can't regear them. Can I stick an e-locker on them? Can I move my 4.88 gear to an old toyota solid front axle? As I am hoping to get 33's I'd like to keep the 4.88's.
4. It seems that I will have to make a tradeoff. If I put in a SAS then my truck will be less driveable on the roads at say 70 to 80 mph. Is this always true?
5. A lunchbox locker could actually destroy my gears, correct? This assumes use as a DD.
6. Does a SAS mean that you have to swap out your rear axle? At a minimum do you at least need to install rear leaf springs and get rid of the coils?
7. How come no one seems to run a body lift with a SAS? Is this just too much lift for everyone? I hope to do an engine swap which will require me to install a body lift which I hope to order and install this month. That would make my body lift permanent.
Thanks for answering all the stupid questions. If anyone knows of a good FAQ that already answers this then that would also help.
1. The front and rear gears have to match, correctly? IE 4.88 in front means 4.88 in rear.
2. What is a dual tranny? Does that mean you have 2 transfer cases that gear down so you can move more slowly at the same engine RPM?
3. I keep hearing that my stock 4.88 gears are special in that I can't regear them. Can I stick an e-locker on them? Can I move my 4.88 gear to an old toyota solid front axle? As I am hoping to get 33's I'd like to keep the 4.88's.
4. It seems that I will have to make a tradeoff. If I put in a SAS then my truck will be less driveable on the roads at say 70 to 80 mph. Is this always true?
5. A lunchbox locker could actually destroy my gears, correct? This assumes use as a DD.
6. Does a SAS mean that you have to swap out your rear axle? At a minimum do you at least need to install rear leaf springs and get rid of the coils?
7. How come no one seems to run a body lift with a SAS? Is this just too much lift for everyone? I hope to do an engine swap which will require me to install a body lift which I hope to order and install this month. That would make my body lift permanent.
Thanks for answering all the stupid questions. If anyone knows of a good FAQ that already answers this then that would also help.
01-11-2007, 03:36 PM
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1. YES!!
2. For all you ever wanted to know about dual cases read this http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/tra...l_07_intro.htm
3. Your 4.88's only cannot be changed in the rear unless you get a different third member. I'm not positive but IFS and solid axle use different ring and pinions but I could be wrong.
4. If your truck is set up properly you should not have alot of driveability issues. Toyotas had solid axles under them for years that drove just fine. Where you lose driveablilty is having super flexy suspension and giant tires.
5. You can use lunchbox lockers for a DD. You will destroy your tires not your gears.
6. You can leave your rear end alone aside from lifting it to match the front. Most poeple go with leafs for more travel.
7. Alot of people that have done swaps are doing it for hardcore wheeling where you want your center of gravity as low as possible hence not alot of body lifts.. also it's easy to put on 36" and larger tires with solid axle set ups. It's not like people with mostly stock rigs trying to cram 33's under their and need every inch they can get. I'm swapping mine this month and I have a 2" body lift because once upon time I was going to do a 3.4 swap.
Have fun and keep reading. TTORA, Pirate, and Marlin all have hours upon hours of reading material on solid axle stuff. Just make sure you don't post this on ANY of those forums it wouldn't be pretty....
2. For all you ever wanted to know about dual cases read this http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/tra...l_07_intro.htm
3. Your 4.88's only cannot be changed in the rear unless you get a different third member. I'm not positive but IFS and solid axle use different ring and pinions but I could be wrong.
4. If your truck is set up properly you should not have alot of driveability issues. Toyotas had solid axles under them for years that drove just fine. Where you lose driveablilty is having super flexy suspension and giant tires.
5. You can use lunchbox lockers for a DD. You will destroy your tires not your gears.
6. You can leave your rear end alone aside from lifting it to match the front. Most poeple go with leafs for more travel.
7. Alot of people that have done swaps are doing it for hardcore wheeling where you want your center of gravity as low as possible hence not alot of body lifts.. also it's easy to put on 36" and larger tires with solid axle set ups. It's not like people with mostly stock rigs trying to cram 33's under their and need every inch they can get. I'm swapping mine this month and I have a 2" body lift because once upon time I was going to do a 3.4 swap.
Have fun and keep reading. TTORA, Pirate, and Marlin all have hours upon hours of reading material on solid axle stuff. Just make sure you don't post this on ANY of those forums it wouldn't be pretty....
01-11-2007, 04:02 PM
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My SASed 89 truck is running 5.29 gears and 36" tires...
And it is smooth at 70-80mph.
Wheel balance, driveshafts (both mine are double carden) and pinion angle are key for smooth running at higher speeds.
Wheel balance, driveshafts (both mine are double carden) and pinion angle are key for smooth running at higher speeds.
01-11-2007, 04:20 PM
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01-11-2007, 06:06 PM
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1. The front and rear gears have to match, correctly? IE 4.88 in front means 4.88 in rear.
Yes, if you're planning on using it on the street or other high traction surfaces. Some SMALL amount of mismatch is OK if you ONLY use it offroad in lower traction conditions. (If you swap in a Dana axle, they don't have 5.29 available, so you have to use a 5.38 or something like that)
2. What is a dual tranny? Does that mean you have 2 transfer cases that gear down so you can move more slowly at the same engine RPM?
You mean dual cases? Yes, two transfer cases - the marlin link above will set you right.
3. I keep hearing that my stock 4.88 gears are special in that I can't regear them. Can I stick an e-locker on them? Can I move my 4.88 gear to an old toyota solid front axle? As I am hoping to get 33's I'd like to keep the 4.88's.
No, you can't use them with an elocker. You MIGHT be able to use your 4.88 rear third in the SFA - but not just the gears. If you have factory 4.88's though, that means you have an auto, and you're not gonna like 4.88's with 33's - you need 5.29's.
4. It seems that I will have to make a tradeoff. If I put in a SAS then my truck will be less driveable on the roads at say 70 to 80 mph. Is this always true?
NO. It depends entirely on the design and especially the execution.
5. A lunchbox locker could actually destroy my gears, correct? This assumes use as a DD.
NO. As above, will increase tire wear though.
6. Does a SAS mean that you have to swap out your rear axle? At a minimum do you at least need to install rear leaf springs and get rid of the coils?
No, you don't need to swap out the rear axle. You don't need to convert to leafs - you just need lift to match the front. Lysmachia has LC coils in the back of her SAS'd 2nd Gen.
7. How come no one seems to run a body lift with a SAS? Is this just too much lift for everyone? I hope to do an engine swap which will require me to install a body lift which I hope to order and install this month. That would make my body lift permanent.
Yes, if you're planning on using it on the street or other high traction surfaces. Some SMALL amount of mismatch is OK if you ONLY use it offroad in lower traction conditions. (If you swap in a Dana axle, they don't have 5.29 available, so you have to use a 5.38 or something like that)
2. What is a dual tranny? Does that mean you have 2 transfer cases that gear down so you can move more slowly at the same engine RPM?
You mean dual cases? Yes, two transfer cases - the marlin link above will set you right.
3. I keep hearing that my stock 4.88 gears are special in that I can't regear them. Can I stick an e-locker on them? Can I move my 4.88 gear to an old toyota solid front axle? As I am hoping to get 33's I'd like to keep the 4.88's.
No, you can't use them with an elocker. You MIGHT be able to use your 4.88 rear third in the SFA - but not just the gears. If you have factory 4.88's though, that means you have an auto, and you're not gonna like 4.88's with 33's - you need 5.29's.
4. It seems that I will have to make a tradeoff. If I put in a SAS then my truck will be less driveable on the roads at say 70 to 80 mph. Is this always true?
NO. It depends entirely on the design and especially the execution.
5. A lunchbox locker could actually destroy my gears, correct? This assumes use as a DD.
NO. As above, will increase tire wear though.
6. Does a SAS mean that you have to swap out your rear axle? At a minimum do you at least need to install rear leaf springs and get rid of the coils?
No, you don't need to swap out the rear axle. You don't need to convert to leafs - you just need lift to match the front. Lysmachia has LC coils in the back of her SAS'd 2nd Gen.
7. How come no one seems to run a body lift with a SAS? Is this just too much lift for everyone? I hope to do an engine swap which will require me to install a body lift which I hope to order and install this month. That would make my body lift permanent.
01-11-2007, 06:11 PM
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When we swapped my rear suspension for leaves, we opted to use an axle housing from a truck instead of a 4runner because then we didn't have to worry about the housing warping when cutting all that coil crap off and welding new perches.
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01-11-2007, 07:39 PM
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I had to replace my rear housing due to my IFS "bolt" on kit FUBARing my axle. I am putting the v6 third on it. I should have pics of the swap up here soon for those of you that want to see it. I ended up going with the leaves in the rear. On the rear the real pain were the brackets by the gas tank. Anyway I'm waiting for a few parts that got messed up with the order and we should have her on all 4's by early-mid next week. The front axle should be rebuilt and finished by the end of tommorrow. The housing had alot of grease and sludge that took a bit of cleaner and time to get it nice. Anyway have fun with your swap and check the Fab section for my build.
01-11-2007, 08:57 PM
#9
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Toy mini truck front axles use an 8" ring gear, the IFS uses 7.5". They are not interchangeable.
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