Badfish740

The 22RE in my '91 is in decent shape, but one day I'd like more power for towing/hauling. I'm upgrading to T100 calipers/rotors/MC now, but it would be nice to have the ability to pull a 3500lb trailer at highway speeds easily. I always thought that SBC swaps for these trucks were overkill, but the 4.3L seems perfect. My BIL has a 2001 Chevy Silverado with the 4.3L that is pretty tired (210K). He uses it only occasionally right now because he's in college and doesn't need to drive that much. When he graduates he said I could have it because I mentioned wanting a donor truck for a swap into my Toyota. Basically my plan would be to yank the 4.3L (with wiring harness), do a complete tear down/rebuild, and scrap the truck. Then what?

I'm curious to know of the 4.3L swaps here, how many were a straight adapter to the Toyota transmission and transfer case? I'm going with a completely stock engine with the exception of maybe a better/more free flowing air intake and a cam more geared toward low end power and torque. I'm sure the headers will free up some horsepower too plus the fact that I'll be removing all of the smog equipment-by the time I get around to this swap the truck will be eligible for registration as a "classic" which means no inspection. The specs for the 4.3L in the 2001 Silverado are as follows:

200 hp at 4,600 rpm/260 lb·ft at 2,800 rpm

vs. the 22RE:

112 hp at 4,600 rpm/192 lb·ft at 3,400 rpm

I figure maybe with the intake, headers, no cat/egr, and cam it could approach 225-230 HP/280 lb·ft. Is that still within the safe range for the stock Toyota running gear? I'm not crazy about the idea of ripping the entire drivetrain out of the truck, but I don't want to finish the swap and grenade the transfer case or rearend the first time I put it in 4 low with 1000lbs of firewood in the bed either. As far as I understand it the 4.3L swap allows the transmission and transfer case to stay in the stock position-is this correct? Not having to mess with driveline angle and length is also another big reason for wanting to keep the stock drivetrain, but again, not if it can't handle the power upgrade.

Finally, I'm wondering how much better I can do than the AA prices on some of the parts. Obviously I'm in about $600 between engine mounts and the adapter kit itself, but starting from the top of the sheet:

Remote oil filter kit - $78 - I think I've seen these at Summit/Jegs for $40-50?

Clutch - $113 - Might be cheaper from Rock Auto or even my local NAPA

Radiator - $500 - Seems pretty steep to me-anybody else have a suggestion for an OEM application that works well with this swap? Like something I could get from 1-800-Radiator for $250?

Headers - $219 - Is there maybe a certain OEM exhaust manifold that will work? I know guys who swap SBCs into Volvos use Corvette exhaust manifolds of a certain year in order to make them fit in the Volvo engine bay.

Flywheel - $200-300 - This I'm sure I can pull off of a junkyard motor and have resurfaced for a fraction of the price.

Am I missing anything here? My plan is to assemble the parts slowly as time and $$$ allows. I'll keep the 4.3L in the garage on a stand and work on it when I can. Once I have all of the parts I'll start the swap. The only thing I'm not entirely sure about is wiring. AA doesn't seem to have any sort of guidance on their website-are you just on your own figuring out what connects to what? I have the basic cluster (temperature, speedo, fuel, and idiot lights)-I could go out and get an SR5 cluster for more gauges or install more on the dash, but I might just leave it. Still, I see making all of the idiot lights work properly being a challenge.

Numbchux

remote oil filter kit? I don't know about that 2001, but my '92 4.3 came with one, which I used. And I've read more than a few builds where people ditched them to leave the filter tucked up by the motor. I'd say dump that off your list, and use what's on your motor.


radiator.....just use your stock 22RE one. That's what I'm doing. Have to be a little creative with the hoses, but it's not too bad.


I don't remember how the W56 compares to a 700R4 transmission, but I think they're pretty similar. That said, I have a 700R4, AA adapter, to a toyota tcase. Tcase in the stock location, and it fits just fine. Fan clearance is a little tight, absolutely no way for a clutch-fan, but the electric fan that I used with my 22RE will fit just fine.




Don't forget to put some sort of lift on that list. The oil pan will not clear the front diff without it. AA recommends using a 4" bracket lift, but I was able to sneak it in with a 2" body/drivetrain lift (although I still had to dent the corner of the oil pan, and get a marine remote oil drain).

Badfish740

I was just going off of the suggested parts on AA's website-if it doesn't need it all the better.

That I might be a little leery of-I have to believe that an engine with twice the displacement is going to make more heat-especially when towing. Unless Toyota just really overengineered the radiator to begin with? Do V6 trucks and 4cyl trucks use the same radiator? If so, maybe it's ok. If not, maybe going with a V6 radiator might be a better idea?

That's what I figured-electric fans are the way to go anyway.

4" is probably more than I would have lifted it, but I also wouldn't have a problem putting 33s on the truck given the extra power. Speaking of extra power, are you at all worried about breaking parts (especially in the front) with the 4.3L?

Numbchux

There might be something I'm missing with your newer motor, but I don't think so.

I haven't actually done it yet, but I've seen numerous builds using the stocker. Mine is an all-metal OEM replacement. It is a massive bump in displacement, but it's almost the exact same hp/liter ratio between the 2. And the water pump is designed for a 350. IMHO, the 4.3 cooling system is very good. But we'll see once I actually start driving mine.

Yea, 4" is more than I wanted too, which is why I went with the body/drivetrain lift. The added clearance at the tcase and gas tank are absolutely worth it if you plan to do any wheeling. But the bracket lift is the simpler way for most people.


I'm not too worried about breaking stuff. I don't think the 4.3 is too much for things as long as you're not totally stupid about it. I intend to push my rig to it's limit, so breaking will happen, but I'm pretty careful, and the automatic should help keep things smooth.

Badfish740

After doing a tune up on my new to me '91 with the 22RE I noticed a few things. First, with the truck sitting at idle, if I hammer the throttle I get a very quick puff of black smoke, but it cleans up immediately. Next, even though I can see no visible smoke behind me during the day, I do notice that if a car is following close behind me at night I can see a haze (through the headlights) when I'm accelerating hard. Finally, when I pull up to a light I can usually detect the smell of burning oil (like when you accidentally spill some on the engine when topping up) if I have my window down. Given all that I've been watching the dipstick like a hawk. As of today I've gone almost exactly 600 miles since the tune up and the truck has used almost exactly a quart of oil. The truck itself has about 160K on it, but I don't know the full history on the engine. I know that its not original, but I don't know exactly when it was replaced. I'm also not sure if a junkyard engine of unknown mileage was dropped in or whether it was a re-ring/rebuild, etc...

I'm really hoping that this is not what I think it is (worn out engine)-I inherited this truck from my uncle who passed away and was hoping to use it as a firewood hauler. Obviously I didn't pay anything for it so I'm not out any money, but the truck has sentimental value to me and I want to hang onto it long term. That said, I really don't have the money or time right now for a newer engine or to rebuild this one. What else can I check/replace to see if it solves my oil consumption problem. I know I need a leakdown test to determine definitively whether or not my rings are shot, but I was hoping that there maybe some other possible causes. I should add that I did NOT do the PCV during the tune up because I was pressed for time-I hope to be able to replace it this weekend. Could that be it?

snobdds

I would do the PVC...just because.

With that much oil loss, it either has to be leaking or burning it.

No visable leaks? What does the tail pipe look like...is it all oily?

Badfish740

No leaks that are hitting the ground anyway. I deliberately parked it over a clean patch of asphalt at work the other day and checked it after sitting for 8 hours-nothing.

TylerH

Mine use's about a quart every thousand miles. I mostly lose it on start up. I get a puff of blackish blue smoke.

I would change the pcv and see what happens.

Badfish740

I should probably also add that I'm trying to clean the motor up. When I got it the oil was as black as coal. I did a Seafoam treatment on the top end and added some to the crankcase and let it idle for 15 minutes just before I drained it. I filled it back up with new 10W-30 and a Fram filter. It went solid black again after maybe 100-200 miles. I was planning to change it at 1000 and to keep doing so until the oil was starting to look better and eventually go with Valvoline Max Life and stick to a 3000 mile interval.

Badfish740

So I just drove to go get some lunch and observed the following:

When I hammer the throttle shortly after startup I get a lot of smoke. The tailpipe actually spit out some black crap which I assume was partially unburned oil? I'm kind of surprised my cat isn't clogged/O2 sensor isn't fouled? I drove a short distance (5 miles-60 MPH) to get lunch and blipped the throttle again-less smoke this time-no black crap on the pavement. I also pulled the dipstick while the engine was running-most engines I've seen with really bad blow-by smoke from the diptube-some to the point where they actually force the stick out of the tube. That's not happening in my case. Could that mean that the oil is getting sucked in from somewhere else (PCV)? I bought a new grommet on my way back since mine is hard as a rock-I'll do both tonight. I also topped up the oil so we'll see what difference if any this makes.

Sensei

Probably bad valve seals... does it smoke on startup ?
Do a wet/dry compression test to check your rings.
You would be suprised at what some manufacturers state as normal oil consumption, GM and Ford state (on early and mid 1990's engines ) one quart per 750 miles is acceptable.
Go figure...

Badfish740

It doesn't smoke just on starting up, but if I hammer it shortly after starting up (before the engine gets up to operating temp) it smokes. What is the difference between a wet/dry compression test? I was going to buy a leakdown tester this weekend, but you're just talking about a regular old compression test (just the gauge that goes in the spark plug hole-not the one you hook an air compressor to) right?

Sensei

Dry compression test is the stnadard test, install compression guage in plug hole, open butterflies or AFM wide open and crank for 3-5 revolutions.

Wet test is the same as dry only you are adding about an ounce of oil before installing the guage. This test coats the rings,so, if the compression goes up on a wet test compared to the dry test reading then you have a ring isue.

Badfish740

Thanks for the explanation-I'll be tackling it all this weekend. I suppose if worse comes to worse and it is the rings I can just always keep a gallon of 10W-30 behind the rear seat. The truck still has what I consider to be a decent amount of power. It gets to 70 on the highway without much trouble and has hauled some serious weight (for its size) in the bed for me. My BIL is going to junk his 2001 Silverado (4.3L V6) so I'm going to try to get the engine off of him before he does. I'll put it on a stand, slowly rebuild it, and drop it in (with the help of an adapter of course) when the 22RE finally dies.

Badfish740

So my idea to turn my '91 into a badass off-road woodhauler/hunting rig has hit a snag...I'm still not sure whether it's rings or valve guides (or both), but the truck has been using about a quart of oil a week. This past week it's on pace to consume a quart in about 3 days, probably because I've been working it harder hauling wood back and forth. I would imagine that as the engine works harder, cylinder pressures go up, and more oil is forced past the rings/valve guides. I'm just keeping a 5 quart jug of the cheapest 10W-30 I can find behind the seat at this point because I need the truck for my 40 mile one way commute until I can get my 2003 F350 Powerstroke sold. At that point I'll use the cash from the F350 to get an AWD/4WD kiddie/dog/grocery mover that is either new or gently used so that all I'll need to worry about on that is basic maintenance-at least for a while. Once she is in that I can switch to her 2001 Corolla for commuting. At that point the oil consumption in the Yota pickup won't be as much of an issue, but it will have to be dealt with eventually.

Basically now that I'm confronted with having to repair or replace the 22RE I'm not sure what to do. A quick Google search shows remanufactured 22RE long blocks going for anywhere from $1500 to $1800. Obviously that's the simplest solution, but for that kind of money do I really want to end up with a truck with stock power? Now that I'm realizing that this thing needs major work I'm more open to the idea of putting more into it (lift, gears, 1 ton rearend, helper springs/ZUK mod, T-100 brakes) in order to beef it up for what I want it to do. If I'm going to go that route I don't know if it makes sense to spend a lot of money to end up with a 4 cylinder. A remanufactured 3VZ-E is north of $2000 but I suppose I could find a good used engine somewhere. There's also the option of a swap-the most complicated route (maybe), but also maybe the most bang for my buck?

The 4.3L swap looks tempting-I had one in my old S-10 and loved it. Tons of power, better gas mileage than even a 305, and a dirt simple throttle body injection system. It has enough power in stock trim to do some serious towing and to turn much larger tires than the 22RE (or even the 3VZ-E for that matter) even with the stock gearing, but I'd probably still go with 4.56s anyway if I could find a cheap set. Basically, if I played my cards right I could probably get a rebuilt 4.3L or have one rebuilt, get the engine mounts and adapter from Advance, and all of the other miscellaneous stuff for not much more than a new 22RE-or at least it seems that way. Am I missing something here? Is there something I'm not considering? I did post over on the engine swap board and got some replies but it's not all that busy over there. Any 4.3L Chevota guys hanging out here?

JPL

I was in your same positoin a few weeks ago and currently having a performance 22RE installed. I like the idea of having a very reliable engine, good fuel milage, and easy to work on engine. I would imagine the 4.3 swap would cost much more than a 22RE. Good luck and hope to see your rig resurrected from it's soon demise.

Badfish740

OK I'm curious-can you post more about the engine? Cost, specs, expected power, etc... Did you buy a crate motor or are you having a shop do custom work for you? I guess I just never associated four cylinders with low end "grunt" but maybe I'm wrong. Is there a way to build these things for torque (cams, etc...)? I guess there's always the option of going lower on the gearing too-I don't need it to go fast, I need it to pull.

JPL

I went with a performance build by Zukiengines and I'm having it installed at a local Performance 4x4 shop. My engine will have KB pistons (lots of controversey about the KB pistons) but I hope it's just due to poor quality piston rings and/or ring gap. The engine I ordered has a higher compression ratio 9.7:1 with a 272 cam (highway power). You can get a 260 cam for better torque. Check my sig for more detail. I'm currently waiting for the engine and clutch kit to arrive but I'll keep my build thread updated. (expected ~140hp..)

Gearing is always a good option depending on tire size and vehicle application. I paid $2,500 for my performance long block (about $5k for the project using performance parts and toyota OEM parts). You can save lots of $$ doing the swap yourself (I didn't have the option but would have). I was quoted about 22 hours for the total 22RE engine swap but got a good deal at my local shop. I'm new to Toyota so I don't know everything about these engines, but from the research I've done these seem like bullet-proof engines that will last a very long time if you take care of them.

Edit: For pulling and power 22RE may not be the engine for you. If you just want a nice off road rig that's reliable and easy to work on then the 22RE is the way to go. I would imagine the 4.3 would cost much more in parts and labor. I plan on pulling a light trailer with my 22RE (~700lb total load including the trailer).