cluelesson22re

I am new to this as you can probably tell because I'm probably posting in the wrong spot... Here is my problem... I am the service manager of All Tune and Lube in Tyler, TX. Prior to taking on this job the shop had been working on a 91 Toyota truck 4wd with 22re. They put a new/rebuilt engine in and after getting all of the bells and whistles hooked up we can not get it to idle for nothing. We've checked everything under the sun and still nothing. One thing we did notice doing all of our tests is that it is only pulling 8-10 inhg at idle with a fluctuating needle. We've smoke tested the engine, done a leak down test, ran a compression test, re-adjusted the valves etc. etc... still to no avail. One thing I noticed is that their appears to be some valve overlap between the 3rd and 4th cylinder cam lobes... Is this normal? Any mor feedback or help would be greatly appreciated. I've been going back and fourth with chef but I think he might be just as stumped as me.

If you have any input you can call me at the shop at 903-595-2851, my name is mike

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Mike, .... *EDIT*(NOT SURE wth I was thinking when I typed this thread is old, lol... I could have sworn you typed it on MY troubleshooting thread, lol... Forgive, anyway;>>>) I would have probably been able to dive more into it with you thus far.... but with the Stepdad having open heart surgery, etc., etc., ...I've just not been on much at all. When I am, it's for a minute or so.

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Far as the Vacuum issue.... I've had EGR's cause me NIGHTMARES that were tail chasing drama for a bit, .... and then, the big one, THE CAM I HAD IN WAS TOAST!(I swapped in a new one without pulling the head/ I can explain if you need to try that...but with a new cam, I would doubt it... I just bring it up because; The KNOB that charged me for a totally rebuilt motor decided to just 'resurface'/grind the cam.... NIGHTMARES FOR DAYS!) No matter what I did to adjust it, I ended up having to swap in a new 261 cam, which helped... BUT, even more was wrong.... The Block was bored/honed in a way that left an 'egg' cylinder issue. What I mean is, .... the machinist must have been pausing too long in the center of the boring. This created a loss of compression in the center..... which caused a lack of proper combustion, yet as the piston ring grabbed at the top, there wasn't any smoke in the pipe, etc., .... it would seal back up at the top.... There was NO WAY IN HELL I could have ever found that without tearing this block apart and got in there with an dial indicator and micrometer, ya know? He even messed up my rod and main bearing journal bores, which actually contributed to the 'IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND MISS'. Then there was the thieving of my LCEngineering Timing Kit(which I found wasn't there, only after tearing the motor half apart for the third time due to a HUGE timing cover leak(also their BAD install)..... THEN, I almost forgot, ..the guy cracked the face of my block/timing cover portion/ and ....... ........... Trust me, the list went on and on. And this was a VERY respected Machine shop at one time. The reason I know it was them, the boring, etc., is because, well, as I replaced everything, including/eventually, the block, crank, rings, bearings, lapped rockers, new springs ... IT PURRED/PURRS! And, the vacuum went back to 12-22"

My point, Mike, is that IF, indeed, you've checked EVERYTHING SECONDARY, ... it often comes down to the "Mechanical".... and I PRAY that's not the case... but at this point, AN ANSWER WOULD BE GOOD, EVEN IF IT'S BAD NEWS, RIGHT? lol.

One thing I think I mentioned to you, privately.... I KNOW my throttle body was an issue. It was pulling in unmetered air at the flap journals and also the Idle-Air adjustment screw(That is PULLING, so it will NEVER show smoke or anything like that in a test. Also, you're POSITIVE there's no gashes or anything of the sort in the AFM or tube on the way to the throttle body?(Even the slinky-elbow ON the throttle body????)

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Mike,

I also wanted to add that;

I'm not sure, depending on the newly rebuilt motor, if the fact that it IS newly rebuilt and the rings haven't seated, etc., might have something to do with the lower vacuum. However, the erratic idle, ....that's opening a multitude of 'Can-O-Worms',......YET, the list is NOT endless.........

1. 91, I believe, still has an IACV(Idle Air Control Valve- or - AAV/Auxiliary Air Valve).... While the engine might be all sussed away and new.... the external parts like IACV, EGR, Modulator, ...they might not be as "problem free". IACV, if stuck open, acts like 'Un-metered' Air. It's pulling in air from before the throttle body and injecting it directly into the plenum's center. (However, as I said, NOT CERTAIN if the 91 has the same "idle up" system or that this would even pose your problem). Those hoses on either side of it can also create drama if they're not intact... Again; They'd be pulling air that is not metered by the AFM into the plenum. I'm not sure that would cause LOW vacuum... but I'd rule it out just the same.

2. This would be more of a sub-category for 'bad idle'...(please share EXACTLY what you mean by "can't get it to idle for crap".... What do you mean? Low idle? High Idle? Erratic Miss? Up and down? Wont Hold 750rpm?

.....a. Mechanical Timing
.....b. Wires/Plugs/Cap/Rotor
.....c. Ignition Timing
.....d. Incorrect Idle-Air Adjustment Screw Allowance/Incorrect Idle Speed
.....e. Cold Start Injector Always On(This would cause a reading of HIGH Fuel, thus, possibly pulling in more air, THUS, possibly altering your vacuum reading as well)
.....f. Vacuum leaks AND Air Leaks can cause drama, WITHOUT triggering engine codes(I know, you've smoke tested.... This is why I mentioned the CAM/Mechanical, earlier)
.....g. IACV stuck open, forcing the idle air screw to be adjusted clockwise to almost closed.
.....h. 02 Sensor can cause LOTS of idle drama... but it would usually throw a code(almost always)
.....i. TPS being improperly adjusted could also cause drama,.... but would also, USUALLY, throw a code.
.....j. Improperly installed Timing Chain(Yes, 'rebuild centers' do this,...ask me how I know??? lol)
.....k. Valves not seating/Seals
.....l. Even Ignitors and coils can create 'IDLE' drama and can be easily tested.
.....m. Fuel Filters and failing Fuel Pumps(I'm sure you guys would have replaced the fuel filter, ...just throwing it out there).
.....n. Coolant Temp Sensor(another lil sucker that can cause issues, for sure).
.....o. Wiring Harness Loom issues( Some corrosion in the Y connectors for the injectors, and others, can cause VERY difficult to find idle issues)

These are just some of the MANY things that can go wrong, as you know(and many would throw codes, which I'm sure you've checked for)...BUT, ALSO, ... I mention this because, ....Your bad idle(whatever that means/You'll explain further) and Low Vacuum reading could very well be unrelated. Even if they are, in part, it might not be one being totally symptomatic of the other, ya know?

Buck87

You may not need the 10 posts in order to start a thread; so give it a try and see what happens. I do believe that you will need 15 posts in order to place a classified ad.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Ahhhh, Looks like the mod's moved it here and threw me for a LOOPSKY! lol. .......Or did they? lol.

Tried to call today when i had a minute, Mike.... you were gone for around a half hour they said, ...this is the first time since I've had to sit down/get on the phone hahaha.

Best wishes,

Mark

PS> Thanks, Buck(hope you're doing well! ) .....Wasn't sure on the posts thingymadoer.... That sounds right.