wiseguymmiv

I'd thought I'd resurrect this post rather than creating a new one.

I need help figuring this one out: I have a 95 4Runner with leaking rear seals. I had the wheel bearings and seals changed 2.5 years ago by a local 4x4 specialist shop, due to rear end noise. 1 year ago, a shop noticed my rear seals leaking, so I had a retired Toyota dealership mechanic change the seals with new ones and put on new rear brakes. A few months later, a shop noticed my rear seals leaking again. I took it back to the mechanic and he replaced them again for free with new ones, but admitted he didn't know why they would fail that fast. He's never seen this happen in his years at Toyota.

Today I was at a shop for a tranny flush, and the shop tells me the seals are leaking and have coated my rear brakes. The rear end is making no noise. The mechanic is at a loss for the reason for the leaking wheel bearing seals. After talking with the shop guys about my multiple-replacement situation and searching Yotatech, I have the found the following possible remedies:

1. the rear end diff breather tube is clogged, causing the leaks with brand new seals
2. the inner of the rea rend is worn, which prevents a wheel bearing seal from being as tight as needed, which the shop says can be fixed by something called a "repair seal" or "repair wheel bearing" (which is different from a standard seal or wheel bearing) which has more rubber around its edges, increasing the seal.

Number 1. should be easy to check. Let's assume that isn't the problem; Does anyone know of these "repair seals" or "repair wheel bearings" that are bigger than the standard ones? Are those the right names for them?

Any other possible solution to the leak? Anything else I should have checked?

I'm ready to get past this frequent problem. Help!

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Check the breather, I had a plugged breather (in my case a raised breather tube got clogged with cold gear oil) force gear oil out past the 2 rear axle seals and the wheel bearings.

For seals, Marlin has some new versions available:
- http://www.marlincrawler.com/axle/re...rear-axle-seal

You could also inspect the sealing surfaces on the axle shafts for grooves worn into the metal by the old seals.

wiseguymmiv

4Crawler,

I'll check the breather for clogs. Unfortunately, those martin crawler seals aren't for ABS rear ends. My 4Runner has factory ABS.

Other ideas? I'd like to give my mechanic several options so we can fix it this time, for good (a few years would be great).

Thanks!

henrypaz

Sometimes you can take advantage of the way heat changes the fit of things when you have to assemble/disassemble parts that have interference fits such as trans and rear end parts. Usually, the actual interference is tiny-- maybe half a thousandth? I have had good luck with it several times in the past.

You could possibly remove your axle, and get a gallon can near full of some cheap motor oil ( is there still any such thing ? ) and heat up the bearing and axle end ) to a very hot temperature in the oil. Heating the oil with some kind of burner? When all is HOT, try to pry with a couple of big screw drivers, or smack the axle end on something hard and solid. Don't bodger the end of the shaft or splines! And don't get burned by a hot bearing if it should come sliding right off onto your hand! It might just slip right off of there.

The same idea is often possible on assembly, plus you can make it even better by putting the shaft part in the refrigerator ( ask the wife or girl friend first ! ), which will shrink it a little bit. Then use a piece of pipe to drive your HOT bearing down the shaft, quickly, before everything gets to the same temperature. The pipe or whatever you use to move the bearing must not bear on the outer race or the bearing will be harmed.

If the bearing itself has seals in it, the will probably be destroyed by the hot oil. No problem if taking them off. Not good for going on. The change in sizes is very small, but you would be surprised how close in size a press fit actually is!

Might work for you. Save lots of money? Another thought :If it came down to it, you could buy or make a press ( some angle/channel iron for a frame, and a big bottle jack )to keep forever in your shop for the price mentioned above by a real "mechanic."

Good Luck!

henrypaz

Sometimes you can take advantage of the way heat changes the fit of things when you have to assemble/disassemble parts that have interference fits such as trans and rear end parts. Usually, the actual interference is tiny-- maybe half a thousandth? I have had good luck with it several times in the past.

You could possibly remove your axle, and get a metal gallon can and fill near full of some cheap motor oil ( is there still any such thing ? ) and heat up the bearing and axle end ) to a very hot temperature in the oil. Heating the oil with some kind of burner? When all is HOT, try to pry with a couple of big screw drivers, or smack the axle end on something hard and solid. Don't bodger the end of the shaft or splines! And don't get burned by a hot bearing if it should come sliding right off onto your hand! It might just slip right off of there.

The same idea is often possible on assembly, plus you can make it even better by putting the shaft part in the refrigerator ( ask the wife or girl friend first ! ), which will shrink it a little bit. Then use a piece of pipe to drive your HOT bearing down the shaft, quickly, before everything gets to the same temperature. The pipe or whatever you use to move the bearing must not bear on the outer race or the bearing will be harmed.

If the bearing itself has seals in it, the will probably be destroyed by the hot oil. No problem if taking them off. Not good for going on. The change in sizes is very small, but you would be surprised how close in size a press fit actually is!

Might work for you. Save lots of money? Another thought :If it came down to it, you could buy or make a press ( some angle/channel iron for a frame, and a big bottle jack )to keep forever in your shop for the price mentioned above by a real "mechanic."

Good Luck!

leebee

if you can find a press for less than the combined costs of p & l, buy it and do the job yourself. that press will come in handy in the future, trust me!

lee

Cyclopsblown34

One of my customers was having the same problem and they replaced the seals three different times with the same results. Turned out the seal material wasn't compatible with the additive package in the gear oil and the seals would start leaking after a while. Got them some good C/R seals with a lip material that was compatible with the gear oil they were using and no more problems. Have your parts guy check his seal dimension catalog for lip materials and make certain it is compatible with the gear oil. There is a chart in the front of either the Timken, C/R or Federal Mogul seal dimension catalog.

wiseguymmiv

Thanks, I'll check that out. I had my mechanic check the overflow tube, which is clear of obstructions. Apprarently no local parts dealer offers a "hub saver" or "repair wheel bearing" for Toyota vehicles; neither does the stealership. These are common parts for Ford and Chevy vehicles, they tell me. The stealership service dept. told my mechanic that they have never run into the problem I'm having, which is odd.

Am I correct that my '95 4runner has rear wheel ABS, standard?

turborich

When I purchased my truck the right rear axle seal was leaking as well. I got an estimate at a trusted local shop for $350 for the bearing, seals & labor. It only ended up needing a seal & the bearing was OK. $130 bucks was the total. The sweet thing was that the dealer that I got the truck from cut me a check for $350 bucks!

wiseguymmiv

I've inquired about the seal material and the gear oil, and found that my setup did not affect the seal. Out of aggrevation at this still unsolved problem, an abundance of caution so as to not have the seals leak again in 6 months and thereby ruin another set of brakes, and after speaking with numerous mechanics, I've decided to have all my rear axle components (not the axle itself) replaced at the dealership- bearing, seal, ABS gear, etc., both sides. Parts - $375, labor- $265 per side. Let's hope this takes care of the problem. Apparently, if the inner wheel bearing seal is placed as much as 3 mm out of place from where it should be, it will leak. The head Yota dealer mechanic (40 years experience) explained this to me Thursday, with exploded diagrams and service manual directions. I'll post my results.

My truck has been sitting still for 2 months while I researched the problem- I'm beyond ready to get it back on the road. I'll then evaluate the condition of the rear brakes. Some say I can clean them up just fine with brake cleaner- others say they will have to be replaced due to differential oil saturation.

rdharper

Your dealership is quoting about what I paid at my own dealership. I had one right rear done... no problems since then, and no problems with the brakes.

I had my dealership do it, as they've been quick and efficient in the past. They kept all the records from the previous owner, and now treat the total history as my own... providing notifications and repair on the front steering recall for instance. And they do not come back with new stuff after I take the vehicle in for a particular job.

Not my experience to trust dealerships.. but just wanted to let you know at least one exists... that can be trusted. I gave them a simple job to start with... and built my experience with them since that first job. I think I average about one minor job every other year, between the two toyotas I own... you know, like timing belt, heater control problems on the '85 truck... stuff like that. I take care of all the fluids... anything else goes to them.

They are so good that I almost bought an '08 Taco full cab at the time I bought the Ridgeline... just because of the quality of the service. (finally went with the ridge as I doubt I'll need service for many years at the rate I drive it) The Honda dealer is not cheap, and are an unknown... which hopefully I'll not need for maybe 10 years.

Anyway, take a chance on your dealer if you have no reason to doubt them.