A wake up call on my 2nd gen...
10-20-2007, 03:28 AM
#21
Registered User
Out of curiosity, how much was the final bill for all of that?
It sounds like they knew their stuff, but probably charged you for a lot of things that either didn't need to be done or that you could have done yourself.
Still, if you have the money for work like that you're definitely better off in the end for having it done.
And btw, definitely buy new parts when you're doing suspension. If you want to save a little buy aftermarket instead of OEM but if the parts are used they're not worth installing. I bought one of those front end rebuild kits off ebay and was actually impressed with the quality of the kit. Instead of spending $500-600 bucks on OEM, seeing as how I needed to replace everything anyway I got the kit for $250 and did everything. Keeping in mind that these parts still may not be OEM quality, if I get 5 years out of them I'll be content as then I'll have money to replace just the worn out parts with OEM stuff, but I didn't have the money to do it all in one shot. I'll dig you up a link to the guy I bought from.
This is the kit I bought. Notice the guys feedback. They were a great company to deal with.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ball-...9974QQtcZphoto
It sounds like they knew their stuff, but probably charged you for a lot of things that either didn't need to be done or that you could have done yourself.
Still, if you have the money for work like that you're definitely better off in the end for having it done.
And btw, definitely buy new parts when you're doing suspension. If you want to save a little buy aftermarket instead of OEM but if the parts are used they're not worth installing. I bought one of those front end rebuild kits off ebay and was actually impressed with the quality of the kit. Instead of spending $500-600 bucks on OEM, seeing as how I needed to replace everything anyway I got the kit for $250 and did everything. Keeping in mind that these parts still may not be OEM quality, if I get 5 years out of them I'll be content as then I'll have money to replace just the worn out parts with OEM stuff, but I didn't have the money to do it all in one shot. I'll dig you up a link to the guy I bought from.
This is the kit I bought. Notice the guys feedback. They were a great company to deal with.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ball-...9974QQtcZphoto
Last edited by ovrrdrive; 10-20-2007 at 03:36 AM.
10-20-2007, 06:15 AM
#22
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
2nd gen front suspension parts...OEM/Ebay/labor charges?
Well there's nothing finer than reading new posts on a thread on YT over morning coffee!
thanks Lysmachia, Snapple76 and Overdrive, good to see your posts. I agree that new parts are the way to go. there's quite a bit of free play in the front suspension and I don't like that one bit.
I checked out those ebay parts, WOW, just a little over $200 for all that? unbelievable.
2 Lower Ball Joints.
2 Upper Ball Joints.
2 Inner Tie Rod Ends.
2 Outer Tie Rod Ends.
2 Adjusting Sleeves.
1 Pitman Arm.
1 Idler Arm.
I went to my old standby 1sttoyotaparts.com for a comparison, here's what I found on some of the more pricey parts I need. The prices are not bad (still pricey!) , but I have a bigger problem and a question about parts markup and labor rates in general. I really like the work that this shop does, however when I asked about bringing my own parts in, I learned that, since the shop makes money on parts mark-up, that they have a policy not to allow customers to supply their own parts. If a customer insists on bringing in their own parts, they double the labor rate. My question, is this par for the course in the industry? I'd love to get my own parts and pay for their labor, but I get the feeling that this is stepping on their bread and butter. What is the best approach, is there a way to bring in my own parts and still make it worth their while, or should I just bite the bullet and follow their policy? I appreciate the insider perspective. seattle rains have started and it looks crisp and chilly outside...a great day for going backcountry. later!
(1st toyotaparts prices)
idler arm, pick-up, 4wd - manual, conventional - MANUAL, CONVENTIONAL 91-94
retail=$205.86 internet price=$148.22
pitman arm, pick-up, 4wd - manual, conventional - MANUAL, CONVENTIONAL 92-93
retail=$103.60 internet price=$74.59
P/s pump, pick-up, 4-runner, 6 cylinder - power, conventional - POWER, CONVENTIONAL
92-94
retail=$413.66 internet price=$297.84
thanks Lysmachia, Snapple76 and Overdrive, good to see your posts. I agree that new parts are the way to go. there's quite a bit of free play in the front suspension and I don't like that one bit.
I checked out those ebay parts, WOW, just a little over $200 for all that? unbelievable.
2 Lower Ball Joints.
2 Upper Ball Joints.
2 Inner Tie Rod Ends.
2 Outer Tie Rod Ends.
2 Adjusting Sleeves.
1 Pitman Arm.
1 Idler Arm.
I went to my old standby 1sttoyotaparts.com for a comparison, here's what I found on some of the more pricey parts I need. The prices are not bad (still pricey!) , but I have a bigger problem and a question about parts markup and labor rates in general. I really like the work that this shop does, however when I asked about bringing my own parts in, I learned that, since the shop makes money on parts mark-up, that they have a policy not to allow customers to supply their own parts. If a customer insists on bringing in their own parts, they double the labor rate. My question, is this par for the course in the industry? I'd love to get my own parts and pay for their labor, but I get the feeling that this is stepping on their bread and butter. What is the best approach, is there a way to bring in my own parts and still make it worth their while, or should I just bite the bullet and follow their policy? I appreciate the insider perspective. seattle rains have started and it looks crisp and chilly outside...a great day for going backcountry. later!
(1st toyotaparts prices)
idler arm, pick-up, 4wd - manual, conventional - MANUAL, CONVENTIONAL 91-94
retail=$205.86 internet price=$148.22
pitman arm, pick-up, 4wd - manual, conventional - MANUAL, CONVENTIONAL 92-93
retail=$103.60 internet price=$74.59
P/s pump, pick-up, 4-runner, 6 cylinder - power, conventional - POWER, CONVENTIONAL
92-94
retail=$413.66 internet price=$297.84
10-20-2007, 06:25 AM
#23
Registered User
Sounds like you need to have a wrench a thon there. You'd be surprised what some good food and free beer can get accomplished!
Too bad I'm on the other end of the country from you...
Too bad I'm on the other end of the country from you...
10-20-2007, 06:27 AM
#24
Registered User
<SNIP>
, but I have a bigger problem and a question about parts markup and labor rates in general. I really like the work that this shop does, however when I asked about bringing my own parts in, I learned that, since the shop makes money on parts mark-up, that they have a policy not to allow customers to supply their own parts. If a customer insists on bringing in their own parts, they double the labor rate. My question, is this par for the course in the industry? I'd love to get my own parts and pay for their labor, but I get the feeling that this is stepping on their bread and butter. What is the best approach, is there a way to bring in my own parts and still make it worth their while, or should I just bite the bullet and follow their policy? I appreciate the insider perspective. seattle rains have started and it looks crisp and chilly outside...a great day for going backcountry. later!
<SNIP>
, but I have a bigger problem and a question about parts markup and labor rates in general. I really like the work that this shop does, however when I asked about bringing my own parts in, I learned that, since the shop makes money on parts mark-up, that they have a policy not to allow customers to supply their own parts. If a customer insists on bringing in their own parts, they double the labor rate. My question, is this par for the course in the industry? I'd love to get my own parts and pay for their labor, but I get the feeling that this is stepping on their bread and butter. What is the best approach, is there a way to bring in my own parts and still make it worth their while, or should I just bite the bullet and follow their policy? I appreciate the insider perspective. seattle rains have started and it looks crisp and chilly outside...a great day for going backcountry. later!
<SNIP>
Think about it for a second.
Not only is some of the profit of a job on the parts, but they also have to warranty the part(s) for some period of time, even if it's just that they'll work when installed.
Now what happens if they install a custom part (and don't charge anymore) and the part is defective right out of the box ?
It happens often enough.
Or, if they install the customer supplied part(s) and it/they work until the customer drives home then something fails (the part has defective).
There isn't a customer in the known universe that's going to believe the shop when the shop tells 'em that the part was defective to start with and that they (the customer) is going to have to pay the labor for the part replacement.
There's not a single person that won't get their undies all twisted up and accuse the shop of incorrectly install said part and demand that the shop replace it on the shops dime, right....
Fred
Last edited by FredTJ; 10-20-2007 at 06:29 AM.
10-20-2007, 06:36 AM
#25
Contributing Member
i know what you mean, i will never in the life of my truck ever take it to someone other than a TOYOTA specialist, i got my trucks alignment at Kal Tire, they totally missed that my ball joints where shot, and i had a leaking rear wheel bearing! my uncle saw that my bearing was leaking and it wasnt until i had my rear coils replaced with PP 1inch coils that the Yota specialist noticed and replaced at a cheap price my ball joints.
10-20-2007, 06:41 AM
#26
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
shop labor, warranties and supplying your own parts
fred, thanks for helping me to understand the shop's policy on not bringing in our own parts. that makes a lot of sense. you're right, lots of people would blame the shop when their parts break...even though it's only due to substandard materials! so I understand. It's just...that the same OEM Toyota parts ordered from 1sttoyota parts are hundreds cheaper and it hurts...but here I go again, complaining when I should be enjoying the great outdoors
as to wrench-a-thons, YES! that is a fantastic idea free food and beer for power steering pump and pitman/idler install anyone? anyone? (ferris bueller)
as to wrench-a-thons, YES! that is a fantastic idea
free food and beer for power steering pump and pitman/idler install anyone? anyone? (ferris bueller)
10-20-2007, 06:49 AM
#27
Registered User
fred, thanks for helping me to understand the shop's policy on not bringing in our own parts. that makes a lot of sense. you're right, lots of people would blame the shop when their parts break...even though it's only due to substandard materials! so I understand. It's just...that the same OEM Toyota parts ordered from 1sttoyota parts are hundreds cheaper and it hurts...but here I go again, complaining when I should be enjoying the great outdoors
as to wrench-a-thons, YES! that is a fantastic idea free food and beer for power steering pump and pitman/idler install anyone? anyone? (ferris bueller)
as to wrench-a-thons, YES! that is a fantastic idea
free food and beer for power steering pump and pitman/idler install anyone? anyone? (ferris bueller)It can happen to any part.
Fred
10-20-2007, 07:08 AM
#28
I've also heard good things about that front end kit from arm-can on e bay. I paid substantially more by sourcing almost exactly those parts seperately when I did mine. If you go that route, you will have a new idler arm, if you don't, consider a rebuild. I did this and it was really easy and only cost something like $13. Link- http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/idler/ You could also consider the same on the PS pump. Off the top of my head, a rebuild kit from Toyota is approx $25? What I did is put on a used one from ebay to hold me over while I putz with this little project. I have a write up for the 6cyl but I have a 4cyl so I'll be flying a bit blind while I work on it. Here is the write up- http://members.cox.net/stacewilliams/ps-pump.htm Good luck.
Mike
Mike
10-20-2007, 09:25 AM
#29
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
parts
thanks blknblu- thanks for telling me about the rebuild option. This is definitely something to consider.
the ebay complete set also seems like a bargain. I've got a lot of thinking and research to do, for now I am going to wait a bit and see how everything drives, I am not losing too much pwr steering fluid so I am going to sit tight for the time being. I'll take the plunge on the front steering components after I save a bit...it can get expensive to do everything at once so I'll take it step by step. I appreciate reading your experience it gives me options
the ebay complete set also seems like a bargain. I've got a lot of thinking and research to do, for now I am going to wait a bit and see how everything drives, I am not losing too much pwr steering fluid so I am going to sit tight for the time being. I'll take the plunge on the front steering components after I save a bit...it can get expensive to do everything at once so I'll take it step by step. I appreciate reading your experience it gives me options
10-20-2007, 09:52 AM
#30
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I'm surprised no one said this yet, but you probably don't need to buy a new idler arm. The movement is from worn out plastic bushings. The parts are only about 15 dollars. The reason the shops always say you need a new one, is that they can replace it with a new one a little quicker. Unless yours is bent (which I believe it isn't) you can save a bunch of money and rebuild yours. It doesn't take very long and is a pretty easy job. I would rebuild it and put 50 bucks of what you saved into a downey idler arm brace.
10-20-2007, 10:23 AM
#31
Registered User
10-20-2007, 10:47 AM
#32
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10-20-2007, 11:12 AM
#33
In his sig it says he already has the idler gusset and Sonoran truss. And yes, rebuild has been mentioned, it's just that if he goes with that kit on e bay, he'll get a new one anyways. Now that doesn't mean he couldn't sell the new or used one here and get some return on his efforts.
10-20-2007, 11:31 AM
#34
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
this is awesome. 2nd gen owners UNITE!
I am feeling very proud to have a 2nd gen right now
thank you slosurfer for making sure about the idler arm brace and fredtj about the the sonoran steel IFS Truss!!!
Yes, those are absolutely ESSENTIAL pieces and I am proud to say that I do indeed have them installed!
I am starting to think that I do not need a new pitman arm and idler arm. blknblu thank you for the continued ebay info. As you said originally it would be very much better for me to replace the plastic bushings first and go from there. in parts alone this would be a major moneysaver.
I am wondering whether the pitman arm has any bushings either...or just idler.
I am going to go with this thread as I was advised by blknblu. at the very least it would be worth trying it before spending big bucks buying parts that I do not need. I feel better already.
last question in regards to the power steering pump. sorry to change the subject-is the general consensus to rebuild an old pump or to buy a new or rebuilt from napa
I ask this because when I screwed up my AFM (by ripping the curcuit board in half) I was able to buy a really nice rebuilt one from napa at about 1/3 the price of OEM even from 1sttoyotaparts
PS I just installed my costco coverking wet okole look alikes. pretty sweet and lifetime moneyback guarantee.
thank you slosurfer for making sure about the idler arm brace and fredtj about the the sonoran steel IFS Truss!!!
Yes, those are absolutely ESSENTIAL pieces and I am proud to say that I do indeed have them installed!
I am starting to think that I do not need a new pitman arm and idler arm. blknblu thank you for the continued ebay info. As you said originally it would be very much better for me to replace the plastic bushings first and go from there. in parts alone this would be a major moneysaver.
I am wondering whether the pitman arm has any bushings either...or just idler.
I am going to go with this thread as I was advised by blknblu. at the very least it would be worth trying it before spending big bucks buying parts that I do not need. I feel better already.
last question in regards to the power steering pump. sorry to change the subject-is the general consensus to rebuild an old pump or to buy a new or rebuilt from napa
I ask this because when I screwed up my AFM (by ripping the curcuit board in half) I was able to buy a really nice rebuilt one from napa at about 1/3 the price of OEM even from 1sttoyotaparts
PS I just installed my costco coverking wet okole look alikes. pretty sweet and lifetime moneyback guarantee.
10-20-2007, 11:40 AM
#35
Registered User
I am feeling very proud to have a 2nd gen right now
thank you slosurfer for making sure about the idler arm brace and fredtj about the the sonoran steel IFS Truss!!!
Yes, those are absolutely ESSENTIAL pieces and I am proud to say that I do indeed have them installed!
I am starting to think that I do not need a new pitman arm and idler arm. blknblu thank you for the continued ebay info. As you said originally it would be very much better for me to replace the plastic bushings first and go from there. in parts alone this would be a major moneysaver.
I am wondering whether the pitman arm has any bushings either...or just idler.
I am going to go with this thread as I was advised by blknblu. at the very least it would be worth trying it before spending big bucks buying parts that I do not need. I feel better already.
last question in regards to the power steering pump. sorry to change the subject-is the general consensus to rebuild an old pump or to buy a new or rebuilt from napa
I ask this because when I screwed up my AFM (by ripping the curcuit board in half) I was able to buy a really nice rebuilt one from napa at about 1/3 the price of OEM even from 1sttoyotaparts
PS I just installed my costco coverking wet okole look alikes. pretty sweet and lifetime moneyback guarantee.
thank you slosurfer for making sure about the idler arm brace and fredtj about the the sonoran steel IFS Truss!!!
Yes, those are absolutely ESSENTIAL pieces and I am proud to say that I do indeed have them installed!
I am starting to think that I do not need a new pitman arm and idler arm. blknblu thank you for the continued ebay info. As you said originally it would be very much better for me to replace the plastic bushings first and go from there. in parts alone this would be a major moneysaver.
I am wondering whether the pitman arm has any bushings either...or just idler.
I am going to go with this thread as I was advised by blknblu. at the very least it would be worth trying it before spending big bucks buying parts that I do not need. I feel better already.
last question in regards to the power steering pump. sorry to change the subject-is the general consensus to rebuild an old pump or to buy a new or rebuilt from napa
I ask this because when I screwed up my AFM (by ripping the curcuit board in half) I was able to buy a really nice rebuilt one from napa at about 1/3 the price of OEM even from 1sttoyotaparts
PS I just installed my costco coverking wet okole look alikes. pretty sweet and lifetime moneyback guarantee.
Fred
10-20-2007, 01:32 PM
#36
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I am feeling very proud to have a 2nd gen right now
thank you slosurfer for making sure about the idler arm brace and fredtj about the the sonoran steel IFS Truss!!!
Yes, those are absolutely ESSENTIAL pieces and I am proud to say that I do indeed have them installed!
I am starting to think that I do not need a new pitman arm and idler arm. blknblu thank you for the continued ebay info. As you said originally it would be very much better for me to replace the plastic bushings first and go from there. in parts alone this would be a major moneysaver.
I am wondering whether the pitman arm has any bushings either...or just idler.
I am going to go with this thread as I was advised by blknblu. at the very least it would be worth trying it before spending big bucks buying parts that I do not need. I feel better already.
last question in regards to the power steering pump. sorry to change the subject-is the general consensus to rebuild an old pump or to buy a new or rebuilt from napa
I ask this because when I screwed up my AFM (by ripping the curcuit board in half) I was able to buy a really nice rebuilt one from napa at about 1/3 the price of OEM even from 1sttoyotaparts
PS I just installed my costco coverking wet okole look alikes. pretty sweet and lifetime moneyback guarantee.
thank you slosurfer for making sure about the idler arm brace and fredtj about the the sonoran steel IFS Truss!!!
Yes, those are absolutely ESSENTIAL pieces and I am proud to say that I do indeed have them installed!
I am starting to think that I do not need a new pitman arm and idler arm. blknblu thank you for the continued ebay info. As you said originally it would be very much better for me to replace the plastic bushings first and go from there. in parts alone this would be a major moneysaver.
I am wondering whether the pitman arm has any bushings either...or just idler.
I am going to go with this thread as I was advised by blknblu. at the very least it would be worth trying it before spending big bucks buying parts that I do not need. I feel better already.
last question in regards to the power steering pump. sorry to change the subject-is the general consensus to rebuild an old pump or to buy a new or rebuilt from napa
I ask this because when I screwed up my AFM (by ripping the curcuit board in half) I was able to buy a really nice rebuilt one from napa at about 1/3 the price of OEM even from 1sttoyotaparts
PS I just installed my costco coverking wet okole look alikes. pretty sweet and lifetime moneyback guarantee.
