dntsdad

Hi all. Have, I think, a very serious problem.

Was driving about 40 miles up to the mountains up a fairly steep grade and then another 8 miles when the truck started knocking. (anyone from Fresno area....drove from Fresno to Shaver Lake up "4 lane")Pulled over immediately and trailered it home and tried to mess with it today. The beginning of this clip is with the coil wire unplugged and just cranking. No knock. It starts and then sounds like there is a monkey with a hammer in there. Tried to use the extentions to listen to isolate the sound but cant really nail down its location.

By the way when the sound cuts in and out, I am not doing anything. thats on its own. You hear when i am give it gas

Oil is fine and full. Check before I left.

Any ideas where to start looking so I am not just pulling things apart. Thanks so much to anyone that can offer an opinion!!!!!!!!!

[youtube]6euDKR7kXbE[/youtube]

Tubbyfatty

Kinda sounds like rod knock....

RMA

Bearings one of them is bad, Look at the oil again this time put some on your finger and hold it up to the light you will see small metal flakes in it.

dntsdad

I havent pulled the oil pan as of yet. Is that step one?

TNRabbit

that sounds BAD, man~

drop some oil out & send to http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

dntsdad

Hey all....just an update and some more questions.

Ok so I pulled the pan and baffle off today expecting to see a ton of metal shavings and to my surprise I saw essentially none.

I was able to squeeze a socket and ratchet onto the crank pulley bolt and spin the motor and everything looks fine. What should I be looking for that I may be missing??

Would I be murdering whatever is still salvageable to start the motor with the pan off (and thus no oil) to see if the sound is coming from inside.

Any other thoughts at all would be incredibly appreciated as I really have no idea what I am looking for at this point!!!!!!!!!!

MudHippy

Burnt/warped valve maybe? A compression check might reveal something of interest. Start at #6 cylinder, as that's the likely culprit for that.

BTW, I wouldn't start it with no oil if I was you.

dntsdad

OK. I dont have a compression gauge. I guess I'll have to "find" one.

Is it possible to pull the rod caps and inspect the bearings and then retorque them in place?

I was under the impression that a tell-tale sign of bearing failure would be a bluing of the rod. I do not seem to have that.

dntsdad

Ok I wont have access to a compression gauge until maybe tomorrow. SO I started digging in the oil pan and there was a bit more metal there than I thought hiding under the remaining oil. I'd say I got about 1/2 of it out and clean onto this case so i could take a picture.

Most of it is silver aluminum looking but is magnetic so not aluminum. Not rings for sure. All flakey. Some of the pieces are a gold/copper/brass looking material and feel very pliable like aluminum foil would feel.

Any of this give me a more clear direction and idea of where the problem is?

Tubbyfatty

Yea id get a new engine. Its probably from your main bearings. Like i said earlier, i believe its rod knock.

I wouldnt drive it untill you fix this.

dntsdad

not possible to pull the main bearing girdle and replace the bearings without machining.

I really just need this motor to last another 4-5 months!!! or I am screwed. but i dont want to buy all new bearings for nothing either!!

MudHippy

Yes.
I'm starting to think your on to something there. I was thinking, due to the intermittency of the knocking sound, it could be a valvetrain issue(i.e. warped/sticking valve, sticking/damaged lifter(follower in this case), or severely worn valve guide causing some valve tip, etc.)

You can replace the connecting rod, crankshaft main, and crankshaft thrust bearings w/o machining the crankshaft journals or rod caps and rod ends. Unless the crankshaft journals, main journals, main caps, rod caps, or rod ends are scored/nicked/scratched/dented or otherwise worn out of spec to the point that o/s bearings aren't sufficient enough to correct. Then it would be a waste of time/money to give 'em new bearings.

What worries me is that a portion of the material you've gathered from the bottom of the oil pan is magnetic. That means that somewhere there will likely be some significant damage to a steel part(s) that new bearings(even o/s) can't/won't fix w/o requiring some machining, or replacement of the damaged part, to correct.

The bearings are yellow colored(hardened bronze) and would be the source of the non-magnetic flakes, for sure. Which bearing(s)? That's the remaining question. Could be any or all of them. I'll take a wild guess and say the crankshaft thrust bearings, due to the intermittency of the knock. Just a guess though, and I would inspect them all(thrust,main,rod) thoroughly to be sure.

Oh, before I go, you can go ahead and disregard my previous guess of "burnt/warped valve". Not very likely at this point.

camo31_10.50

when i spun the #2 rod bearing in my 22R it sounded EXACTLY like that.....

those are DEFINATELY bearing shavings..so its either a rod or main bearing..
start pullin that motor out..

great time to pull off a 3.4 swap..
HAHAHAHA!!!

mntbound

I have a 89 SR5 Manual V6 same 3.0L 3VZ motor, has 210k on it, but it was already rebuilt at 165,210 miles!

That knocking sound is exactly what my truck started to do while heading up a pass, except if I rev the engine, the knocking is FAR worse.

Since all signs points to "new engine", can anyone suggest a good/lesser expensive route to take? I don't have cash to throw at this, but I need the truck up and running. From what I've searched $4,000-$7,000 is the price range for a new/rebuilt motor with all parts and labor.

Oregon Engines sells them for ~$1,595 + shipping (~$300?) with a kickass warranty.
Found a few other places like Jasper Engines, but they're around $2,000+ as I recall. Foreign Engines run around $2,199. This isn't including the core charges either. I was quoted $1,450 1yr/12k miles warranty, $300 core charge, $645 labor, $300 parts.. so around ~$2,910 after tax, which seems fairly cheap but I'm leery about a cheap fix. Considering the last owner had the engine rebuilt and a lot of good that did....

My other question is; how do I know if the tranny is any good? It has 210k miles on it. I've already replaced the rear end, cv boots, wheel barings, and clutch.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm located in Washington state, if anyone has any suggestions for local shops?

Matt16

Check out motors from wrecked trucks in junk yards- they'll be cheaper.

mntbound

Do junk yard motors get anything more than compression tested? How much should I expect to spend for a swap if I pickup a junk yard motor?

Kiely

Hey MNT, try out this website, it's a wrecking yard search engine... you can find 3.4s for under $1000.

http://car-part.com/

PS: I agree with the people saying rod knock.

Good luck!

dntsdad

If you are swapping a 3.4 after my research I would vote against getting a wrecking yard motor. The motor is one price but the harness is another, and the ECU is yet another.

Then you have all the EVAP, intake box, sensors, etc.

Junkyards(at least all those that I have found in the California area) nickle and dime you on every little part.

You are much better finding a wrecked donor vehicle and pulling it to your house. That way all the parts are there from motor to O2 sensors.

Alltold for me a junkyard motor would be about $2000-$2500 around here. Needless to say, but I can buy a running, daily driven 96-98 Tacoma for that!!!!

Just my opinion after religiously researching this for the past month. Again, your area may be different.

mntbound

Thanks for the link, that's really helpful!

I'm thinking I'll look around for a low miles 3VZ..

Kiely

I hear ya' DNTS... there are some pretty good wrecking yards up here and they'll give a good price on the whole thing (ECU, harness, etc...) but there are plenty of shady nickel and dimers too. It's just another tool to help you find what you're looking for. I know up here if you were wanting a 3.4, 5 speed for example you could be waiting a long time before you found a complete truck because so few of them got sold without the auto.