stupid noobie cant figure out timing prob...
12-22-2007, 01:47 PM
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stupid noobie cant figure out timing prob...
hey there, ive been a long time searcher/newly registered just finally cant get a q answered that ive run into.
heres te deal, i have a '91 yota 4x4 auto with the 3vze 72k that i picked up for 1500 off craigslist in tucson. the guy inherited it from his father who just passed and it was running thru fuel pumps. well after replacing 3x, being he knew nothing about mechanics, he decided to sell. i towed it back and got it running by replacing a bad distributor. it runs great but i have to advance the shat out of the timing and pull the distrbutor and shaft out bout 1/2 inch for it to run properly. now i know what your thinking, im 180* off right, but i checked rechecked, then had my friend give me a hand to get a fresh pair of eyes to make sure i had got #1 cyl TDC (compression stroke), 0* on the timing, and pointed the rotor at #1 terminal per manual.
all that being said, i started looking at my vacuum lines and pulling them to see if any change. i got back to my egr valve and noticed i had no suction and checked the wires leading into the egr valve and had no power. i cant find any blown fuses or frayed shorted wires. and now the truck will start with the key but wont turn off with the key. im pretty sure the key is from a bad ignition switch and ill be testing it later tonight but thought i didnt wanna leave anything out.
does it have anything to do with the egr or vacuums at all??
i know im am far from being a mechanic by any means but im goin crazy here!!!
please help a noobie out or point my blind azz to the right place to search. thank you
heres te deal, i have a '91 yota 4x4 auto with the 3vze 72k that i picked up for 1500 off craigslist in tucson. the guy inherited it from his father who just passed and it was running thru fuel pumps. well after replacing 3x, being he knew nothing about mechanics, he decided to sell. i towed it back and got it running by replacing a bad distributor. it runs great but i have to advance the shat out of the timing and pull the distrbutor and shaft out bout 1/2 inch for it to run properly. now i know what your thinking, im 180* off right, but i checked rechecked, then had my friend give me a hand to get a fresh pair of eyes to make sure i had got #1 cyl TDC (compression stroke), 0* on the timing, and pointed the rotor at #1 terminal per manual.
all that being said, i started looking at my vacuum lines and pulling them to see if any change. i got back to my egr valve and noticed i had no suction and checked the wires leading into the egr valve and had no power. i cant find any blown fuses or frayed shorted wires. and now the truck will start with the key but wont turn off with the key. im pretty sure the key is from a bad ignition switch and ill be testing it later tonight but thought i didnt wanna leave anything out.
does it have anything to do with the egr or vacuums at all??
i know im am far from being a mechanic by any means but im goin crazy here!!!
please help a noobie out or point my blind azz to the right place to search. thank you
Last edited by az_devil; 12-22-2007 at 01:58 PM.
12-23-2007, 05:45 PM
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Vaccum line or Egr should not have anything to do with the start problem. Start the truck then turn the key off, then turn the key to where the dash service lights come on, if they come on then your ignition is probably working. Then my guess would be shorted somewhere.
12-23-2007, 06:42 PM
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Going through fuel pumps like that is pretty bad. I'd suspect you're getting too much voltage to the pump and eventually burning them out. A bad fuel pump relay or ECM could cause that. OR maybe you have a bad ground. Since it's been replaced 3x already it seems unlikely that would be overlooked, but you never know unless you've looked at it yourself.
When you turn the key to ignition (without actually turning the engine over), you can hear the fuel pump prime for a second or two (standing near the cold start injector side) and then cut off until you turn the engine over. If it continues to run for longer than that second or two, something is wrong or going wrong there. It's getting voltage more so than it should.
Considering your fuel pump, timing, and ignition switch issue, you could have an ECM problem. But, blame it last and test the switch first and a few other things first.
I've never heard of a bad EGR causing a timing problem of that nature, but a big vacuum leak could. However, I'd set the timing back to where it's supposed to be until you find the real problem. Advancing the timing that far is not good for the motor at all. Instead, I'd start testing things like the coolant temp sensor, tps, vam, and even the ECM. Rule out those simple things first and if the problem's not solved you can start looking elsewhere like bad connectors and such. Of course, it could be a valve or more out of adjustment, burned (which would be a big vacuum leak....and could be caused by fuel delivery problems) or something. Run a compression test.
BTW, what procedure are you running for checking/setting the timing? Are you using a timing light and shorting the diagnostic terminals? Also, is it throwing any trouble codes?
When you turn the key to ignition (without actually turning the engine over), you can hear the fuel pump prime for a second or two (standing near the cold start injector side) and then cut off until you turn the engine over. If it continues to run for longer than that second or two, something is wrong or going wrong there. It's getting voltage more so than it should.
Considering your fuel pump, timing, and ignition switch issue, you could have an ECM problem. But, blame it last and test the switch first and a few other things first.
I've never heard of a bad EGR causing a timing problem of that nature, but a big vacuum leak could. However, I'd set the timing back to where it's supposed to be until you find the real problem. Advancing the timing that far is not good for the motor at all. Instead, I'd start testing things like the coolant temp sensor, tps, vam, and even the ECM. Rule out those simple things first and if the problem's not solved you can start looking elsewhere like bad connectors and such. Of course, it could be a valve or more out of adjustment, burned (which would be a big vacuum leak....and could be caused by fuel delivery problems) or something. Run a compression test.
BTW, what procedure are you running for checking/setting the timing? Are you using a timing light and shorting the diagnostic terminals? Also, is it throwing any trouble codes?
Last edited by thook; 12-23-2007 at 06:50 PM.
12-23-2007, 06:53 PM
#4
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A bad fuel pump relay or ECM could cause that. OR maybe you have a bad ground.
Considering your fuel pump, timing, and ignition switch issue, you could have an ECM problem. But, blame it last and test the switch first and a few other things first.
Instead, I'd start testing things like the coolant temp sensor, tps, vam, and even the ECM. Rule out those simple things first and if the problem's not solved you can start looking elsewhere like bad connectors and such. Of course, it could be a valve or more out of adjustment, burned (which would be a big vacuum leak....and could be caused by fuel deliver problems) or something. Run a compression test.
BTW, what procedure are you running for checking/setting the timing? Are you using a timing light and shorting the diagnostic terminals? Also, is it throwing any trouble codes?
Considering your fuel pump, timing, and ignition switch issue, you could have an ECM problem. But, blame it last and test the switch first and a few other things first.
Instead, I'd start testing things like the coolant temp sensor, tps, vam, and even the ECM. Rule out those simple things first and if the problem's not solved you can start looking elsewhere like bad connectors and such. Of course, it could be a valve or more out of adjustment, burned (which would be a big vacuum leak....and could be caused by fuel deliver problems) or something. Run a compression test.
BTW, what procedure are you running for checking/setting the timing? Are you using a timing light and shorting the diagnostic terminals? Also, is it throwing any trouble codes?
This will help (Factory Service Manual for a '93 - yours is the same)
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-buchanan/93fsm/
Last edited by tc; 12-23-2007 at 06:54 PM.
12-24-2007, 09:48 AM
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Hi-
Not sure I am understanding your problem.
If you were 180 off, then you would not be able to start your rig. I really don't think that is it. You said that you have adv the heck out of the timing, what do you have your timing set at?
What type of problems are you having, that make you think it is a timing issue? Stumbling, hesitation, missing, backfire, hard starting?
Not sure I am understanding your problem.
If you were 180 off, then you would not be able to start your rig. I really don't think that is it. You said that you have adv the heck out of the timing, what do you have your timing set at?
What type of problems are you having, that make you think it is a timing issue? Stumbling, hesitation, missing, backfire, hard starting?
12-24-2007, 10:05 AM
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Sorry, I can't really see what your question is?
You can't be 180 off, your motor would not start. What symptoms do you have that make you think it is the timing? What do you mean you have to pull it out 1/2in to run good? Is your dizzy not seated? What do you have your timing set at (BTDC)?
You can't be 180 off, your motor would not start. What symptoms do you have that make you think it is the timing? What do you mean you have to pull it out 1/2in to run good? Is your dizzy not seated? What do you have your timing set at (BTDC)?
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02-19-2008, 07:20 PM
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If moving the distributer out makes it run better you must have the distributer positioned 2-3 teeth off. Since the distributer gear is helical cut the shaft turns as you install it, is the rotor pointing at #1 with the dist fully seated? It kinda sounds like your lining up #1 before you install, then when you fully seat the dist it's way off.
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