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My Turbo manifold upgrade and sds

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Old 02-19-2008, 08:48 AM   #1
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My Turbo manifold upgrade and sds

I am about 3/4 or more done with my install and figured I would post a few pictures. I will post some more when I have time and make more progress. Here are just a few shots of the key components. I will prolly also add some later of the computer location and guage location. anyway here you go.









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Old 02-24-2008, 06:36 PM   #2
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A few more photos of the SteedSpeed manifold.. Got it in the truck this weekend, but need to redesign the downpipe...










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Old 02-25-2008, 04:36 AM   #3
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You putting a new turbo on with the new manifold. I put my manifold on saturday and then spend the rest of the day working onmy down pipe. It took some thinking and a lot of welding and a trip to tractor supply company to pick up some more welding supplies. Finally got it on lat night and then I also got my intake plumbing all figured out I think. Well It will be temporary until I can figure out a good way to move the power steering pump, but it will work well I think. I have some pictures that I will post. Probably tonight.
Are you running an intercooler? I like the oil drain set up you have there. I think I need to change mine around some.
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:59 AM   #4
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Is that an egt probe I see there in the back?
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Old 02-25-2008, 08:08 AM   #5
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Yes. It's an EGT probe. I've found it's a critical tool when tuning timing.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:53 AM   #6
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I don't think I need one since I have the sds system. It uses air fuel ratio not egt to tune the engine. Here is what SDS says on the matter.

"There seems to be a lot of mystery and misinformation about using exhaust gas temperatures to tune engines. Claims by many EGT gauge manufacturers about it being the best way to tune an engine must be qualified. The BEST way to tune an engine is on an engine dyno- PERIOD. What EGT is good for is a reference for where the engine made maximum torque at wide open throttle. Once removed from the dyno, a similar air/fuel ratio can be established at a later date by dialing in the mixture to achieve the target EGT. It is really the AFR that is important, not the EGT. Most engines will make maximum power at an AFR of between 12.0 and 13.5 to 1 however, the EGT may vary from 1250F to 1800F and is dependent on many factors.

It should be mentioned that the target EGT is valid only on the same engine configuration as was used on the dyno. If you change the ignition timing, cams, pistons, headers etc., the optimum EGT may also change. Raising the compression ratio with no other changes will drop the EGT at the same AFR. Retarding the ignition timing will generally raise the EGT at the same AFR. One engine might make best power at 1350 degrees while a very similar engine might be happier at 1500. You can't guess at this or you are simply wasting your money on the instrumentation. Wankel engines have higher EGTs than comparable piston engines due to their lower thermal efficiencies. 1800F is not uncommon here.

Some gauge manufacturers say you should tune to achieve maximum or peak EGT for maximum performance. This is incorrect. Peak EGT generally occurs at an AFR of around 14.7- 15.0 to 1 on gasoline. This is far too lean for maximum power and is dangerous under continuous WOT conditions. Many people think that the leaner you go, the higher the EGT gets. This is also incorrect. Peak EGT occurs at stoichiometry- about 15 to 1 for our purposes. If you go richer than 15 to 1, EGT will drop and if you go leaner than 15 to 1 EGT will ALSO drop. It is VERY important to know which side of peak EGT you are on before making adjustments. It is safe to say that peak power will occur at an EGT somewhat colder than peak EGT."

They say it is good to have both but I think they put more emphasis on the wideband and air fuel ratio. Thye could be biased though.



But you said you use it for engine timing. (retard/advance) Thats interesting. I am curious as to how that works.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:05 AM   #7
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Yes, I'm running an EGT probe just outside the exhaust port on my #4 cylinder. I consider it a critical tuning tool for tuning timing.

I'm running the same turbo, but I dropped the exhaust turbine AR size down to .48 trying to get a little more low end spool. I had the turbo torn down, checked, and rebalanced just to be sure. I was running a .60/.63 T3. It's now .48 on the exhaust side. I'm looking for more spool and found that I had an exhaust leak at the exhaust manifold gasket.

I had one of Leens prototype manifolds the new manifold changes enough stuff to require some redesign of my exhaust system.

Are you running a restrictor on the oil feed to your turbo?

I have an intercooler, although you wouldn't know it to look at the truck. It actually works very well at speed.



Other changes to the truck are remflex exhaust gasket, a 11psi spring in the TIAL wastegate, and total redesign of the associated downpipe and WG plumbing.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:26 AM   #8
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I had one of those restrictors for the oil feed like the one I can see on your turbo but it did not seal and when I went to tighten it it just broke off. So I went to brass fittings from the hardware store. Not sure how much restriction that gives but I didn't have any trouble with the turbo or engine when it was running before the recent upgrades.
Yeah I had to spend some time rethinking my down pipe. I have a picture of it that I can post if you are interested.

If you don't mind I am interested in knowing how you use your egt for timing.
Is the turbo turbine change to help lower the turbo lag and what not. I don't have an issue with turbo lag because with the higher compression I don't need boost at low rpms to make power. Your truck will for sure make more top end though as you can run more boost due to lower compression.

I put my intercooler in front of the radiator. I don't have ac on my truck so by spaceing the radiator out some and some cutting etc I was able to fit it in there quite nicely. I had a picture of it in the first few pics I posted. How do you keep from getting mud and such in the intercooler. I couldn't get away with doing what you did because it would be full of mud all the time.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saitotiktmdog View Post
If you don't mind I am interested in knowing how you use your egt for timing.
Is the turbo turbine change to help lower the turbo lag and what not. I don't have an issue with turbo lag because with the higher compression I don't need boost at low rpms to make power. Your truck will for sure make more top end though as you can run more boost due to lower compression.

If you run too little timing (a lot of retard) EGTs tend to spike up, waaay up - like over 1500 degrees. This can melt pistons, heat up manifolds (red hot), and cause oil to burn off in the turbo.

I have complete control of the timing map with Megasquirt, so it's a useful tool.


Lowering the AR on the compressor side will help with lag and make the turbo spool up at lower RPM. It has a small impact on top end airflow, but this T3 supports over 300hp, so it shouldn't matter. Power isn't just about peak HP - it's about the area under the HP curve.

I have a "mid" compression motor - 8.5:1 - so it's between the low compression 22RTE and the high compression 22RE.




Quote:
I put my intercooler in front of the radiator. I don't have ac on my truck so by spaceing the radiator out some and some cutting etc I was able to fit it in there quite nicely. I had a picture of it in the first few pics I posted. How do you keep from getting mud and such in the intercooler. I couldn't get away with doing what you did because it would be full of mud all the time.

I'm in Texas and can't live without air conditioning.... And it's mainly a street truck at this point, I don't do a lot of mud. If you really want to get crazy - you can do what Harry Wagner did - mount it under hood with a functional scoop.


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Old 02-25-2008, 12:20 PM   #10
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Thats pretty cool. I like that under the hood setup. I have that same bumper too. I get the egt thing now. Makes sense now. I may need to look into that myself.

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Old 02-25-2008, 02:07 PM   #11
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I took some more pictures this evening. Here they are.
Manifold with waste gate on engine

down pipe with five bolt flange welded on

finished down pipe



The next two show how I will most likely do the intake plumbing until I find a good way to move the power steering pump


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Old 02-27-2008, 09:32 AM   #12
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Well if all goes well I hope to have the truck up and running this weekend and then I can begin the ordeal of programming the system. Getting my fuel values and such dialed in. Never done it before so it will be a learning experience. Wish me luck
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:56 AM   #13
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I'm going to have to redesign my downpipe this weekend this weekend also.. How close is yours to the firewall / speedo cable, brake lines?

For my wastegate, I actually dropped that all the way out, just like a downpipe - I connect it in front of the cat. Two pieces of flex tube in it.

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Old 02-27-2008, 11:09 AM   #14
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Yeah I thought about doing that with the wastegate dump tube but decided against it. It is not too bad. It is about an inch or so, maybe more from the brake lines but and there is plenty of clearance to the firewall. The firewall clearance is actually better than it was but the brake booster clearance is worse, but not by too much. The exhaust wrap is there for extra protection. If I have troube with heat back there I may do another layer of wrap or fab up a shield or something for the back. Thats a nice looking pipe you got there.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:10 AM   #15
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I still have to do the exhaust from down pipe to cat. Will do that this weekend. I think the hard part is done though.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:15 PM   #16
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Wow, you guys are doing some *cool* stuff to 22re's! Wish I had the time to play with all those turbo mods.

I was wondering, what are those little filters on the top of the valve cover?
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:21 PM   #17
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Wow, you guys are doing some *cool* stuff to 22re's! Wish I had the time to play with all those turbo mods.

I was wondering, what are those little filters on the top of the valve cover?

Those filters are for venting the crank case pressure. Normally they are hooked to the intake manifold via vacuum lines or hoses because the vacuum sucks the pressure out of the crank case. But with a turbo you have pressure. So you would be blowing pressure into your crankcase. Then oil comes out of places it shouldn't. Finally figured that out after much frusteration and head scratching.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:45 AM   #18
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Well I got it running this weekend. It started up right away. Well once fuel pressure was built up in the lines. I suppose that means that I put the magnets on the crank pulley correctly. That was the one thing that I think I was worried about the most. I was able to take it out twice and it ran ok, not great by any means. It was way rich down low and then way lean up top. I didn notice that the turbo spools up much more quickly with the steed speed manifold. Leen really did a great job on it. I am thouroughly impressed. Any way after that all attempts in adjusting the fuel values ended up making it run worse. I could get it to idle ok but when I would try and start out it would go rich and then way lean and die. I have no experience tuning so this does not supprise me. I will need to do alot of research and spend a lot of time on it. But it runs and I think once I get it tuned well I think it will be pretty impressive. I can already tell from the little I did get to drive it that it has alot more power than it did.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:11 AM   #19
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To check the alignment of your crank trigger - make sure "commanded" timing (SDS) matches actual timing at the crankshaft via a timing light.. IT's normal for there to be some default deflection one way or the other.

Good to hear it's running!

I changed to a smaller exhaust housing at the same time as changing the manifold... Hard for me to compare.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:26 AM   #20
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Yeah I already checked the timing with a timing light. You make sure that all rpm values from 500 to 2000 i think are all set to ten for ignition and then change the magnet postion value until you get it so it fires at 10. Then you can change your ignition timing values. The default factory setting is at 80 and mine is set at 77. This made it fire right on at ten so I think it is good. I did some research today and I noticed I have low vacuum at idle so I have to use the tp sense and idle fuel value instead of the map value at idle. Racetech suggested I start with 150 for rpm fuel values. Also I think I need to turn up the ACC sense sensitivity and up the value some. The reason being I noticed that in order to get it to idle right I had to turn the fuel values way down at idle. But then whenever I would try and go anywhere it would die. What this does is it reads the idle fuel value instead of the map value at idle. I will try this and see what happens. Racetech says that map values shouldn't have to be changed too much from the default values and that most of the tuning will be on the rpm fuel values. I may have to change the map values some but that will come later. Did you get yours running yet, or close to anyway. Leen will be interested in your feedback. He is putting a feedback section on his website and says that I will be the first one on there. Pretty cool eh.
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22re, 22rte, downpipe, exaust, manifold, sds, sdspage, speed, steed, steedspeed, toyota, trigger, tuning, turbo, vacuum

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