ovrrdrive

Breif history, I had a plastic guide on my '95 22RE break apart and go through the bottom gear which broke the timing cover and jumped time on the motor about a month ago.

I got a new timing set from engnbldr with the steel backed driver's rail and set out to replace the damaged parts. I got a used but in good condition timing cover from subiminal trips that he graciously donated to the cause. It has a little wear from the chain, but was not worn through and wasn't apparently cracked anywhere.

Everything seemed to go pretty smoothly, but has taken a long time.

I got everything buttoned back up and tried to crank it and had no compression still. A compression tester verified this too as did the valve adjustment that showed 4 loose intake valves. So the head came off and sure enough, 4 bent intakes.

With the local guys wanting $230-260 just to do a valve job and a resurface, I ordered a reman head from J and C Enterprises off ebay with O/S SS valves, heavier springs, and an aftermarket Crane cam in it for $399 including shipping. It looked pretty good on arrival and I put everything back together.

Every gasket in the motor was replaced and installed on polished mating surfaces with grey permatex. I cleaned every surface with brake cleaner and a dry rag right before installing the gaskets too. As far as I know there shouldn't have been anywhere for this to happen.

I have water in the oil and oil in the water. I'm going to start taking the cover back off tomorrow night, and hopefully get it off Saturday afternoon sometime.

Any ideas as to where this could be happening?

I'm kind of at a loss here... I don't know if I'll even see where the problem is when I go back in.

cliffs:

1. replaced timing cover, timing set, timing cover, and head and used all new gaskets
2. oil in water and water in oil now

Ideas?

trythis

This is probably the dumbest idea, but are you sure you got the water and oil out of the system before you put it all together. Is it remotely possible that you had water/oil to begin with?

Are there any seals that are not gaskets, such as a main seal that could cause this to happen that you didnt replace?

Are there any bolts that hold the water pump on timing cover on that are the wrong length that could casue such a leak situation?

Just ideas.

TNRabbit

You didn't say if you had started it yet...??? If not, then I agree with trythis. If you've started it, my only other suggestion would be check for some other damage caused by the guide when it was flying around.

FYI to everyone; if you've ever jumped time for any reason, suspect & inspect for bent valves before you button the engine back up!

ovrrdrive

Thanks for the ideas guys... This is a strange problem indeed.

I have started the engine and ran it for about 15 minutes. I was hopng the slight milky look to the oil was some left over water from pulling the head and that it would evaporate, but after the run it was worse, and I had oil in the fresh water I put in. It definitely got worse.

As far as I know, the only thing I didn't replace was the rear main seal. I think I tok everything else apart. And I mean everything.


I replaced the oil before I started it the first time, and after a 30 second run, I took the valve cover off for another problem and managed to dump more water in the head, so i even changed the oil again before I refired it. I have been trying to be really careful with this to avoid more damage.

As for inspecting the head for bent valves in a timing job, I couldn't agree more. Live and learn...

Please keep the ideas coming guys...

EWAYota

Have you done a compression test on it? Might have a leak on the head gasket.

TNRabbit

i hate to say it, but I'm beginning to suspect a cracked head or block...did it overheat before?

ovrrdrive

Not yet... I'm taking the night off from it tonight to cut the grass. I'll do the compression before I tear it down though. I'm hoping it's in the timing cover and not the head.




No. It's never overheated and the heat tab was intact on the stock head. No offense, but I sure hope you're wrong.

Keep the ideas coming though guys. The other opinions really help.

surf4runner

was the new head checked for straightness?
it could be warpped. did they tell you if it was resurfaced?

Chuki

your checklist for the problem consists
warped head
cracked head
warped block
cracked block
headgasket didn't seal
timing cover needs replacement, although I assume that would only put water in the oil, not vice/versa

ovrrdrive

Here's the link to the auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT


Supposedly they went through it pretty well. I've gotten several personal recommendations for this guy from people I trust.

ovrrdrive

Man, that's a nasty list...

Most of your list could be indicated by a compression test right?

Btw, I had a thought about the plate on the rear of the head... Seems like one bolt may have been a little long and gave us some trouble although the other 3 sealed tight. If this plate was loose or the head cracked in this spot it could mix the oil and water right?


Great ideas people... Please keep them coming.

toyotaoffroad91

in your case drain the coolant and oil fill the coolant with the oil drain plug removed if it comes out there you probally messed up the timing cover gasket. ive seen this like 3 times

Chuki

^^^^ Thats true you could have botched up the tchain cover gasket... Although that doesn't confirm why oil in the water though.

Do a compression test 1st and foremost.

trythis

I would think it would be good to take off the catalytic converter for all that testing. Its pricey and you could damage it by dumping oil, gas and water in there.

ovrrdrive

I'll check that out too...

That's actually likely because when we did the timing cover we did it with the head on. I dropped the oil pan but at that point I didn't think I needed to pull the head. The cover was a bit of a pain in the ass to put on too. I may lift the head back off this time to make sure I get a good seal...

Sucks because I already warmed the engine up so I have to get a new head gasket now...

I'll get the compression checked tonight.

TNRabbit

[/QUOTE]No. It's never overheated and the heat tab was intact on the stock head. No offense, but I sure hope you're wrong.

Keep the ideas coming though guys. The other opinions really help.[/QUOTE]


I hope I'm wrong, too!

ovrrdrive

Ok, finally getting started...

Compression looks good although maybe a little high.



The advertised head was supposed to raise compression a little. I think I read normal is around 175, do you guys think low 180's warrants a thicker head gasket?

ovrrdrive

On further diagnosis, there was actually very little oil in the water. It was more of a think film than an actual measureable amount of oil in there.



However, when I drained the oil it was about half and half with water. It was solid chocolate milk for the entire drain. I regret turning the truck around now before I drained it. But this entire ordeal has gone down with the truck facing the wrong way and I decided to do a few things to make it easier this time. Turning the truck around was one of them...

Next, i filled the radiator with water, and was able to figure out how to pressurize the system with the hose. After a few seconds, I was able to get a steady stream of water to pour out the drainplug.




I'm thinking those of you that said it was a bad gasket onthe timing cover are right. Looks like I'm going back in...

I did go and borrow an air compressor and a few tools this time. I really don't think it will be too bad.

I am planning on dropping the oil pan and loosening and lifting the head this time. I cut a few corners before and am paying for it now. I think I can just loosen the head and lift it just enough to slide a new gasket in there and then just prop it up on a small piece of wood until I get the cover on, then drop it back down and torque it back down. That would save several hours of reattaching stuff to it, and still allow me to get a good seat on the timing cover.

Any more ideas/suggestions?

Thanks for everything so far...

Chuki

Compression is fine, no need to worry about headgasket thickness either unless your trimmed a major amount off then you'll have to address the timing chain length. But I wouldn't worry about it at all.

ovrrdrive

I think I found it...

The gasket around the water outlet had a bubble on one side and when I scraped it it looked like there was some oil between the gasket and the mating surface...

Looks like either we didn't use enough permatex on that spot, it slid off, or the wrong kind of permatex was used all together.

So, what color permatex do you guys recommend to use on the timing cover?

I used gray all through the engine when I assembled it, but it looks like the gray didn't bond for ลลลล on the timing cover...

Would the black be better?