Help me Diagnose my 86 22RE Oil Loss Problem
11-10-2007, 05:47 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Help me Diagnose my 86 22RE Oil Loss Problem
Hello all -
I bought this truck about 6 months ago. It's always had a problem with oil consumption. It runs great, but uses oil. The strange thing is that it doesn't leak it, and I never see smoke, but somehow it looses about a quart of oil every 1k miles or so. It doesn't smoke when I start it (I look) or any other time. However, it does spray black "gunk" or a lack of a better term during startup. It's not visible as it happens, but you can definitely see the result. Another thing that's odd is that this truck has great power (for what it is) and gets great gas mileage. I did a compression check and it did VERY well at that. It has relatively low miles as far as 20 yr old trucks go, at about 80k miles.
I bought this truck about 6 months ago. It's always had a problem with oil consumption. It runs great, but uses oil. The strange thing is that it doesn't leak it, and I never see smoke, but somehow it looses about a quart of oil every 1k miles or so. It doesn't smoke when I start it (I look) or any other time. However, it does spray black "gunk" or a lack of a better term during startup. It's not visible as it happens, but you can definitely see the result. Another thing that's odd is that this truck has great power (for what it is) and gets great gas mileage. I did a compression check and it did VERY well at that. It has relatively low miles as far as 20 yr old trucks go, at about 80k miles.
11-10-2007, 05:59 PM
#2
Registered User
Holy smoke, it does look like it is eating oil. I assume that either your piston rings are bad or the valve stem gasket? Maybe a leak down test will give you a better result.
11-10-2007, 06:05 PM
#3
Registered User
I had a sensor malfunction last week, making my ECU think it was really cold (-40c) - as a result, it richens the mixture.
I got exactly the same sort of crap on the driveway...
Buring oil - smoke is usually blue... You may be using it at a rate where you can't quite see it. When the rings go, they'll usually show start to show an indication when under load at higher throttle settings.
11-10-2007, 09:58 PM
#4
Registered User
Yea a quart a thousand isn't bad. well come to think of it mine goes from "full" to "add" between oil changes, but I don't have to add any. But my tranny uses a quart every 1500 miles. Basically, I don't think its an immediate problem that requires fixing. Just a normal older truck thing.
11-11-2007, 07:35 AM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
A quart of oil every thousand miles? What are you complaining about? That's normal. An internal combustion engine will use SOME oil, and a quart a thousand is OK. That black stuff that spits out on startup is water [natural byproduct of the combustion process] mixed with carbon from fuel. If you drive short trips and don't get your rig fully warmed up, this is the result. If you just drive a couple of miles to work, and a couple of miles to the store, your muffler is full of water.
A quart of oil every thousand miles is not normal for a healthy engine. I had an 87 that had 250k on the original motor and it would burn about a quart between oil changes and it didn't throw crap all over the wall upon startup. Nor did my 98 or 99 3rd gens that I sold. I would have thought it was water & carbon as well (and maybe it is) if it wasn't such a significant "blow out". I drive the truck 60 miles a day minimum round trip to work and back. I rarely take it on short trips. And even if I did take a short tip here and there, this is a bit extreme just for a little condensation build up.
I will go ahead and work on doing a leak down as others have mentioned.
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11-11-2007, 05:04 PM
#8
Registered User
Hello all -
I bought this truck about 6 months ago. It's always had a problem with oil consumption. It runs great, but uses oil. The strange thing is that it doesn't leak it, and I never see smoke, but somehow it looses about a quart of oil every 1k miles or so. It doesn't smoke when I start it (I look) or any other time.
I bought this truck about 6 months ago. It's always had a problem with oil consumption. It runs great, but uses oil. The strange thing is that it doesn't leak it, and I never see smoke, but somehow it looses about a quart of oil every 1k miles or so. It doesn't smoke when I start it (I look) or any other time.
If the truck sat for long periods of time between uses, the valve seals are probably shot.
What weight oil are you using?
11-11-2007, 06:51 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Have you checked your PCV valve and related hoses for clogs/restrictions? A plugged PCV valve or hose(s) causes excessive oil consumption. Yeah, 1 quart every thousand miles isn't right. I have 170K and it uses no oil between changes (between 3-4K miles)
If the truck sat for long periods of time between uses, the valve seals are probably shot.
What weight oil are you using?
If the truck sat for long periods of time between uses, the valve seals are probably shot.
What weight oil are you using?
The truck has less than 80k miles on it. I'm sure it has sat quite a bit over the years.
I'm using 10-40 weight castrol oil.
11-11-2007, 07:14 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Alright fellas. Well I went down and got me a leakdown compression tester today at harbor freight.
I'll spare you the details and just get to the facts.
For the sake of this write up (whether accurate or not) I'm calling cyl 1 the cylinder closest to the front bumper and labeling each of the following in order so that cyl 4 is the closest to the fire wall.
Pulled all the plugs. Plus 1 & 3 looked better (not oily) than plugs 2 & 4. Ran the leakdown test as best I could. The directions say to open the valve to allow air into the cylinder until the gauge on the right (%leakdown) is at the 0% mark and then watch for the leakdown. Something wasn't right, because as I did this it would hit the 0% mark at only about 15psi in the cylinder. This isn't enough to give you a good indication of anything. Besides that, the leakdown tester just held there at the 0% mark, it didn't move. So I cranked up the pressure and the gauge on the right kept spinning in a clockwise fasion until it hit a stopper back about the 7 oclock position almost into the red. I was able to get 50psi to register on all cylinders. I didn't want to push my luck, as I wasn't sure if I was going to break the gauge by doing this. None the less, the "leakdown % gauge" was 100% useless the entire time.
Cylinder 1 and 2 I could hear air coming through the valve cover with the oil cap off. On cylinder 2 I noticed it was pushing coolant up (would have overflowed if I didn't turn the pressure back down) and then it would bubble. Cylinders 2 & 4 seem to have a leak between them somehow, or else I didn't have the piston at complete TDC (PITA without a helper).
So after I got done with the leakdown tests, I went ahead and did a compression test since I had the spark plugs all out. Below is a picture of the results.
1: 165
2: 147
3: 173
4: 152
Factory spec is 171. Minimum is 142. Maximum variance is 14psi.
Obviously cyl 2 and 4 have a problem. Compression on cyl 4 was just a hair over 150. So I put in spark plug #2 to see if this would increase the compression, if in fact it was leaking between these cylinders. I found that the compression actually dropped about 3-5psi, so I didn't really confirm anything with that.
BTW, all sparkplugs are about 7k miles old.
SO... my initial thought is that I have a headgasket problem. I'm thinking a significant amount of oil may be getting into the coolant. I also think both are somehow making it into the exhaust. I don't think coolant is making it into the oil, as it always looks "normal". The thought is oil pressure>water pressure.
Anyone have any guesses/recommendations?
I think the truck was sold to me this way. What's odd is that it runs so well and that I've put about 10k miles on it as is. I guess I'll have to figure out what the next step is. Wish I had a bigger garage. I'd like to wait until after winter to mess with this, but I don't want to be out of my 4WD the only time of year I really need it. What a conundrum.
I'll spare you the details and just get to the facts.
For the sake of this write up (whether accurate or not) I'm calling cyl 1 the cylinder closest to the front bumper and labeling each of the following in order so that cyl 4 is the closest to the fire wall.
Pulled all the plugs. Plus 1 & 3 looked better (not oily) than plugs 2 & 4. Ran the leakdown test as best I could. The directions say to open the valve to allow air into the cylinder until the gauge on the right (%leakdown) is at the 0% mark and then watch for the leakdown. Something wasn't right, because as I did this it would hit the 0% mark at only about 15psi in the cylinder. This isn't enough to give you a good indication of anything. Besides that, the leakdown tester just held there at the 0% mark, it didn't move. So I cranked up the pressure and the gauge on the right kept spinning in a clockwise fasion until it hit a stopper back about the 7 oclock position almost into the red. I was able to get 50psi to register on all cylinders. I didn't want to push my luck, as I wasn't sure if I was going to break the gauge by doing this. None the less, the "leakdown % gauge" was 100% useless the entire time.
Cylinder 1 and 2 I could hear air coming through the valve cover with the oil cap off. On cylinder 2 I noticed it was pushing coolant up (would have overflowed if I didn't turn the pressure back down) and then it would bubble. Cylinders 2 & 4 seem to have a leak between them somehow, or else I didn't have the piston at complete TDC (PITA without a helper).
So after I got done with the leakdown tests, I went ahead and did a compression test since I had the spark plugs all out. Below is a picture of the results.
1: 165
2: 147
3: 173
4: 152
Factory spec is 171. Minimum is 142. Maximum variance is 14psi.
Obviously cyl 2 and 4 have a problem. Compression on cyl 4 was just a hair over 150. So I put in spark plug #2 to see if this would increase the compression, if in fact it was leaking between these cylinders. I found that the compression actually dropped about 3-5psi, so I didn't really confirm anything with that.
BTW, all sparkplugs are about 7k miles old.
SO... my initial thought is that I have a headgasket problem. I'm thinking a significant amount of oil may be getting into the coolant. I also think both are somehow making it into the exhaust. I don't think coolant is making it into the oil, as it always looks "normal". The thought is oil pressure>water pressure.
Anyone have any guesses/recommendations?
I think the truck was sold to me this way. What's odd is that it runs so well and that I've put about 10k miles on it as is. I guess I'll have to figure out what the next step is. Wish I had a bigger garage. I'd like to wait until after winter to mess with this, but I don't want to be out of my 4WD the only time of year I really need it. What a conundrum.
Last edited by My99; 11-11-2007 at 07:16 PM.
11-11-2007, 07:41 PM
#11
Registered User
Hey Kyle...I believe I saw your vehicle today. Were you anywhere around the center of town?
Yeah, 1qt/1k is a bit excessive. That exhaust is not normal, either. Keep in mind, it's colder right now and these 4cyl's don't have the greates flowing exhaust systems. What I'm saying is if your getting oil in the combustion (regardless of apparent smoke) that shnit will build up in the exhaust and blow out with condensation. I wonder....is this first is this "gunk" has started happening?
From the looks of your valve cover I'd say your getting some significant blow by at the PCV and the oil filler cap is leaking. Look at where the lines run to the intake plenum and see if you have oil in there. I'll tell you....mine's been looking the same way and I get no smoke and still have good power, also. However, my compression tests were middle range and more even than yours. Your plugs look good....except from the dark insulator on #1. Also, hard to tell from the pic, but it LOOKS like the gap on #1 is a bit narrow compared to the others. Are you getting any CEL action?
Oh, don't rely on many of those HF tools like that. I got a fuel pressure tester that worked about as well as pile of crap for air freshener.
Last thing, might take your rig over to over to Don Clark (Clark's Motor Clinic) here Winslow. The man is real good and will give you an accurate diagnosis. Atleast call him and get an estimate. 634-5533. He's a low key/dead pan kinda guy. So, don't take it for a lack of interest when/if you get him on the phone.
Yeah, 1qt/1k is a bit excessive. That exhaust is not normal, either. Keep in mind, it's colder right now and these 4cyl's don't have the greates flowing exhaust systems. What I'm saying is if your getting oil in the combustion (regardless of apparent smoke) that shnit will build up in the exhaust and blow out with condensation. I wonder....is this first is this "gunk" has started happening?
From the looks of your valve cover I'd say your getting some significant blow by at the PCV and the oil filler cap is leaking. Look at where the lines run to the intake plenum and see if you have oil in there. I'll tell you....mine's been looking the same way and I get no smoke and still have good power, also. However, my compression tests were middle range and more even than yours. Your plugs look good....except from the dark insulator on #1. Also, hard to tell from the pic, but it LOOKS like the gap on #1 is a bit narrow compared to the others. Are you getting any CEL action?
Oh, don't rely on many of those HF tools like that. I got a fuel pressure tester that worked about as well as pile of crap for air freshener.
Last thing, might take your rig over to over to Don Clark (Clark's Motor Clinic) here Winslow. The man is real good and will give you an accurate diagnosis. Atleast call him and get an estimate. 634-5533. He's a low key/dead pan kinda guy. So, don't take it for a lack of interest when/if you get him on the phone.
Last edited by thook; 11-11-2007 at 07:45 PM.
11-12-2007, 03:17 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Hey Kyle...I believe I saw your vehicle today. Were you anywhere around the center of town?
Yeah, 1qt/1k is a bit excessive. That exhaust is not normal, either. Keep in mind, it's colder right now and these 4cyl's don't have the greates flowing exhaust systems. What I'm saying is if your getting oil in the combustion (regardless of apparent smoke) that shnit will build up in the exhaust and blow out with condensation. I wonder....is this first is this "gunk" has started happening?
From the looks of your valve cover I'd say your getting some significant blow by at the PCV and the oil filler cap is leaking. Look at where the lines run to the intake plenum and see if you have oil in there. I'll tell you....mine's been looking the same way and I get no smoke and still have good power, also. However, my compression tests were middle range and more even than yours. Your plugs look good....except from the dark insulator on #1. Also, hard to tell from the pic, but it LOOKS like the gap on #1 is a bit narrow compared to the others. Are you getting any CEL action?
Oh, don't rely on many of those HF tools like that. I got a fuel pressure tester that worked about as well as pile of crap for air freshener.
Last thing, might take your rig over to over to Don Clark (Clark's Motor Clinic) here Winslow. The man is real good and will give you an accurate diagnosis. Atleast call him and get an estimate. 634-5533. He's a low key/dead pan kinda guy. So, don't take it for a lack of interest when/if you get him on the phone.
Yeah, 1qt/1k is a bit excessive. That exhaust is not normal, either. Keep in mind, it's colder right now and these 4cyl's don't have the greates flowing exhaust systems. What I'm saying is if your getting oil in the combustion (regardless of apparent smoke) that shnit will build up in the exhaust and blow out with condensation. I wonder....is this first is this "gunk" has started happening?
From the looks of your valve cover I'd say your getting some significant blow by at the PCV and the oil filler cap is leaking. Look at where the lines run to the intake plenum and see if you have oil in there. I'll tell you....mine's been looking the same way and I get no smoke and still have good power, also. However, my compression tests were middle range and more even than yours. Your plugs look good....except from the dark insulator on #1. Also, hard to tell from the pic, but it LOOKS like the gap on #1 is a bit narrow compared to the others. Are you getting any CEL action?
Oh, don't rely on many of those HF tools like that. I got a fuel pressure tester that worked about as well as pile of crap for air freshener.
Last thing, might take your rig over to over to Don Clark (Clark's Motor Clinic) here Winslow. The man is real good and will give you an accurate diagnosis. Atleast call him and get an estimate. 634-5533. He's a low key/dead pan kinda guy. So, don't take it for a lack of interest when/if you get him on the phone.
Aren't all mechanics that way?
Thank you for the head's up I may give him a call. Still haven't decided whether or not I want to tackle it myself. The only time I drove the truck today was to taco bell in the later afternoon and to Harbor Freight around noon. I live just off Garland.
I'll check the PVC. The flash from the camera make things look a lot worse than they are. There's really no oil near the oil cap, it's just from where I've spilled it pouring it in and wiped it up.
How obvsevant - yes I did manage to drop spark plug number one. I did re-gap it before i put it back in.
11-12-2007, 05:35 AM
#13
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hahah that thing is spitting crazy oil.
Try putting some decarbonizer in it and see if that makes a difference. There is probably some carbon preventing the valves from sealing properly.
Thats what i would do just a few cents.
Hope you figure it out!!
Try putting some decarbonizer in it and see if that makes a difference. There is probably some carbon preventing the valves from sealing properly.
Thats what i would do just a few cents.
Hope you figure it out!!
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