fire in #1 hole...
01-21-2011, 09:33 PM
#22
alright,im back to running on 3 cylinders,1,3,4.two has spark but is not firing.i have 12 volt ower at the injector connector,im gonna have to go back and get that damn noid light kit again arent i?? i ran it up to temp and all other cyl seem fine,friggin thing will even idle,on three cylinders...
to reinerate,fixed wiring harness,new injectors,all new ignition parts plugs,wires,dizzy cap and rotor, good spark to all,good pressure on all 4 cylinders,150 to 152. any bones will be gladly taken!!!!!!!
on my way to the liquer store
to reinerate,fixed wiring harness,new injectors,all new ignition parts plugs,wires,dizzy cap and rotor, good spark to all,good pressure on all 4 cylinders,150 to 152. any bones will be gladly taken!!!!!!!on my way to the liquer store
My issue with the same cylinder ended up being a frozen injector.... BRAND NEWLY DONE with a full service from RC Injectors! lol. WOW, I've had so many gremlins.... FORGET IT, I don't wanna think about it, hahaha.
Ok, so I'll wait for your response, just to be sure, and I'll check back asap.
Have a good'n, Mr. Beam, lol,
Mark
01-22-2011, 07:27 AM
#23
i have spark at all cylinders now,basically im back to where i started...#2 isnt getting fuel,i pulled the plug wire off while running ,no change. checked injector wire with a 12v light tester,has power w/the key on.i guess i need to get a noid light (again) and see if it has a pulse.am i correct???
01-22-2011, 08:50 AM
#24
I will throw this out there, and hopefully someone more recently refreshed(or that has it burnt into their head-organ) will chime in. I actually have a bit of it on another computer, in file format....need to send it to this one... anyway.....
The 86(yours) and 87(mine) should be identical in regards to the Injector-Resistor. The IR is the finned, amplifier looking component on the passenger side fender wall next to the starter solenoid. It, I BELIEVE, is delivered voltage which it then, being a resistor, reduces to 5V(Might be 6, think it's 5, lol). I'm fairly certain that the injectors do not pulse 12V once it's running.
There are also 'senders' in the ECU.... Now, THIS, my friend, I'm really not prepared to discuss too deeply. There's plenty of Info out there, and I'm sure someone will chime in.(I hope so, anyhow, lol). I'm pretty sure they are related to the No.10 and No.20 connector pins in the ECU. I THINK, again, that they 'send' pulses to each pair of injector Y-connections(No.10 sends it through one wire that splits into 2, No.20 the other, eh?). I'm a lil confused by this, as it was months ago that I had a crash course in it while working on mine.
Now, seeing as you have ONE INJECTOR not sending fuel into the hole..... I would think, first thing, "it's the Injector, somehow, being frozen or spent". I know you said you have all new injectors, right?.....Meaninggggg? lol. (cleaned? serviced? NEW?) Sorry, just didn't read everything again. My reason for bringing this up is, as I said.... 'My #2 injector froze up'...,in comment #22, which was due to gunk coming loose in the fuel line/or rail/ and finding it's way RIGHT INTO #2 Injector.....which had JUST BEEN CLEANED! And now reading your next post, it's EXACTLY the same cylinder, lol. That means nothing, really, other than, 'WOW, what a coincidence!" hahaha. However, ....I wouldn't think that JUST ONE injector would fail due to wiring, or any other component(ECU, RESISTOR, ETC), UNLESS a wire after the Y-Connection that's related to #2 Injector has a break in it somewhere.
Far as your question; YES, in short, hahaha, ....run a noid test on #2, ...and YES, IT'S A PITA, eh? lol. Mine was anyway, haha. If you have power to that injector.... I REALLY would think it's the injector. BTW, did you replace your fuel filter, etc.? If so, that might be why it's not firing... After I replaced my filter, I didn't REALLY clean out the lines well, and something broke free and lodged in #2. If that's the case, you just have to tear down the intake again and get that injector in for repair or replacement. I've heard of people getting them back and one just simply wouldn't fire.
I have a question....or 3.....or 4, lol....
1. Did you pull back the wiring harness to the Y-connections where the Injector main wires split from 1 into 2, twice?
2. If you did, did you re-solder them?(guessing by what you said regarding rewiring, etc.)
3. Did you do your fuel filter AND clean out your lines and fuel rail really well?(I didn't..... and I PAID, lol)
The 86(yours) and 87(mine) should be identical in regards to the Injector-Resistor. The IR is the finned, amplifier looking component on the passenger side fender wall next to the starter solenoid. It, I BELIEVE, is delivered voltage which it then, being a resistor, reduces to 5V(Might be 6, think it's 5, lol). I'm fairly certain that the injectors do not pulse 12V once it's running.
There are also 'senders' in the ECU.... Now, THIS, my friend, I'm really not prepared to discuss too deeply. There's plenty of Info out there, and I'm sure someone will chime in.(I hope so, anyhow, lol). I'm pretty sure they are related to the No.10 and No.20 connector pins in the ECU. I THINK, again, that they 'send' pulses to each pair of injector Y-connections(No.10 sends it through one wire that splits into 2, No.20 the other, eh?). I'm a lil confused by this, as it was months ago that I had a crash course in it while working on mine.
Now, seeing as you have ONE INJECTOR not sending fuel into the hole..... I would think, first thing, "it's the Injector, somehow, being frozen or spent". I know you said you have all new injectors, right?.....Meaninggggg? lol. (cleaned? serviced? NEW?) Sorry, just didn't read everything again. My reason for bringing this up is, as I said.... 'My #2 injector froze up'...,in comment #22, which was due to gunk coming loose in the fuel line/or rail/ and finding it's way RIGHT INTO #2 Injector.....which had JUST BEEN CLEANED! And now reading your next post, it's EXACTLY the same cylinder, lol. That means nothing, really, other than, 'WOW, what a coincidence!" hahaha. However, ....I wouldn't think that JUST ONE injector would fail due to wiring, or any other component(ECU, RESISTOR, ETC), UNLESS a wire after the Y-Connection that's related to #2 Injector has a break in it somewhere.
Far as your question; YES, in short, hahaha, ....run a noid test on #2, ...and YES, IT'S A PITA, eh? lol. Mine was anyway, haha. If you have power to that injector.... I REALLY would think it's the injector. BTW, did you replace your fuel filter, etc.? If so, that might be why it's not firing... After I replaced my filter, I didn't REALLY clean out the lines well, and something broke free and lodged in #2. If that's the case, you just have to tear down the intake again and get that injector in for repair or replacement. I've heard of people getting them back and one just simply wouldn't fire.
I have a question....or 3.....or 4, lol....
1. Did you pull back the wiring harness to the Y-connections where the Injector main wires split from 1 into 2, twice?
2. If you did, did you re-solder them?(guessing by what you said regarding rewiring, etc.)
3. Did you do your fuel filter AND clean out your lines and fuel rail really well?(I didn't..... and I PAID, lol)
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 01-22-2011 at 08:53 AM.
01-23-2011, 08:36 AM
#25
alright, hooked up noid light to #2,no flash,hooked it up to #1 just to make sure it worked,#1 flashed. pulled boot off injector clip,looks fine but i broke part of it off removing it from the injector,so now i NEED a new injector clip.neverending.so the $200.00+ dollar question (what im into parts so far with no results) is...why do i have 12v power to the injector clip with the ignition on and no pulse signal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im shutting the heater off and going in to watch the packer/bear game,ive had enough.
im shutting the heater off and going in to watch the packer/bear game,ive had enough.
01-23-2011, 11:49 AM
#26
#1 pulsed and #2 didn't, eh? hmmmmm.
I'm trying to remember how the Senders in the ECU work... I thought they were in pairs(i.e.; No.10 controls #1 & #3 Injectors and No.20 controls #2 & #4... I know, it might be #1 & #4 for one pair and #2 & #3 for the other... just throwing it out there).
The reason I bring that up, C, is because it could cause it to not pulse.... BUT, I would THINK that it would be causing 2 INJECTORS not to pulse, not just one. I'd have to read up a bit, and I'm watching the game and cooking, so I'm a lil busy... besides, you're probably half tanked on Beam by now, so I shouldn't stress it right this minute, right? hahahaa. (My point with that part is that, as I said, above, ... I'm pretty sure each Sender, No.10 and No.20, control a pair of injectors, each..... so not sure how only one injector wouldn't fire.)
BREATHE, BUD, ......you'll get it! When you do, you'll jump so high out of celebration you'll hit your head on the ceiling! lol. Seriously, .... just need more people to chime in and start helping you do a P.O.E. of your own, ya know?(Process of Elimination).
Just a thought... maybe write out a list, in one post, of everything you've done or replaced in an organized manner, like so,
************************************************** *************
1. Replaced Coil, Ignitor, Cap, Rotor, Wires and Plugs
2. Checked Dizzy for play
3. Did Noid Light Test on Injector connectors(#2 has 12V but Noid light doesn't pulse like #1 Inj. wire does)
4. Re wired ____ & ____ in the harness for components A and B(whatever you did) and lost juice to every hole but #1, but now I've gone back in and rewired and got it back, JUICE TO ALL 4 PLUGS
5. ETC.
* But, now I have NO PULSE to #2 Injector with a Noid Kit... but I do have 12V to it.
************************************************** ***********
The more I organized my dilemma, the WAY more help I got from many people. And again, HANG IN THERE, you'll figure it out. After all, it can only be so many things, man. Trust me, I know, I was ready to tackle random people at the store when I was battling my gremlins for 4 MONTHS, C! lol. 100's of hours later, ....I STILL have issues, but it's running pretty good. AND, ... I didn't spend 35K ON IT! lol.
I'm trying to remember how the Senders in the ECU work... I thought they were in pairs(i.e.; No.10 controls #1 & #3 Injectors and No.20 controls #2 & #4... I know, it might be #1 & #4 for one pair and #2 & #3 for the other... just throwing it out there).
The reason I bring that up, C, is because it could cause it to not pulse.... BUT, I would THINK that it would be causing 2 INJECTORS not to pulse, not just one. I'd have to read up a bit, and I'm watching the game and cooking, so I'm a lil busy... besides, you're probably half tanked on Beam by now, so I shouldn't stress it right this minute, right? hahahaa. (My point with that part is that, as I said, above, ... I'm pretty sure each Sender, No.10 and No.20, control a pair of injectors, each..... so not sure how only one injector wouldn't fire.)
BREATHE, BUD, ......you'll get it! When you do, you'll jump so high out of celebration you'll hit your head on the ceiling! lol. Seriously, .... just need more people to chime in and start helping you do a P.O.E. of your own, ya know?(Process of Elimination).
Just a thought... maybe write out a list, in one post, of everything you've done or replaced in an organized manner, like so,
************************************************** *************
1. Replaced Coil, Ignitor, Cap, Rotor, Wires and Plugs
2. Checked Dizzy for play
3. Did Noid Light Test on Injector connectors(#2 has 12V but Noid light doesn't pulse like #1 Inj. wire does)
4. Re wired ____ & ____ in the harness for components A and B(whatever you did) and lost juice to every hole but #1, but now I've gone back in and rewired and got it back, JUICE TO ALL 4 PLUGS
5. ETC.
* But, now I have NO PULSE to #2 Injector with a Noid Kit... but I do have 12V to it.
************************************************** ***********
The more I organized my dilemma, the WAY more help I got from many people. And again, HANG IN THERE, you'll figure it out. After all, it can only be so many things, man. Trust me, I know, I was ready to tackle random people at the store when I was battling my gremlins for 4 MONTHS, C! lol. 100's of hours later, ....I STILL have issues, but it's running pretty good. AND, ... I didn't spend 35K ON IT! lol.
01-24-2011, 09:25 AM
#27
all right guru's, this will not beat me!!!! ive narrowed it down to #2 injector wiring.i just switched #2 & #3 injector wires,the miss moved to #3!!!!!.i know this because i pulled #3 plug wire and no change. so,in all my research and help from all,mostly chef,thanx a ton man,ive ohm checked the wires from #2 cylinder (blue/white),no resistance from the plug back to before where i soldered the old joints.so,i know i have fuel and my injectors are good,i know i have good spark to all cylinders,according to the noid light,im NOT getting a signal to #2 injector connector.im going to change the connector because it broke when i was dicking around with ,well,everything...im having trouble finding a part # for this connector,or does anyone have a good one on w/a pigtail they wanna part with for a 86 22re??if that doesnt work im out of ideas.i dont understand that if the injectors batch fire,why would only one not fire,it should be two cylinders not firing,yes?
Last edited by cman1; 01-24-2011 at 09:28 AM.
01-24-2011, 01:23 PM
#28
BUMPITY FOR C'man; Help with Diagnosis, guys?
I believe they fire simultaneously, C.
But, let's think bout this..... That 'connector' has no resistors in it, etc.(RIGHT, GUYS?) ..... so I would think you would have to go back to the source from that wire.... The ECU. The source, meaning, "what's sending the signal to fire, and when?" However, I see your point... "Seeing as they fire simultaneously, .... how could one have voltage but not pulse?" You're SURE #2 Wire and Connector is getting 12v, right? I'll presume, "YES", since you said it lit up with the noid light. Hmmmmmmmmm, very strange. I mean, if you got NO voltage to the connector....the first thing I would say is "IT'S GOT to be the Y-Connection in the harness where the Power Supply Wire(No.10 or No.20 on the ECU) splits into 2(thus, the {Y} )" BUT, since there's power to that connector... I'm kinda baffled.
I can't recall off hand if the ECU drivers(what controls pulse ratio) are a total of 4. I don't think so, but I can't be sure, as I said. I know a guy who could answer this RIGHT OFF, but he's on Vacation...promised not to bother him, lol.
IF, by some chance, you got a fluke-light up with the Noid for #2 Connector(as it, it was BARELY hanging on by a thread .... and NOW, if you test it again, you get NOTHING, no voltage to #2 Connector... I would DEFINITELY suggest tearing back the harness to the "Y" connections for the injectors(I believe it's #2 & #4 that are on the same Sender Signal..... Maybe No.20, guysssss?, lol. I'm trying, C, lol) .
I believe they fire simultaneously, C.
But, let's think bout this..... That 'connector' has no resistors in it, etc.(RIGHT, GUYS?) ..... so I would think you would have to go back to the source from that wire.... The ECU. The source, meaning, "what's sending the signal to fire, and when?" However, I see your point... "Seeing as they fire simultaneously, .... how could one have voltage but not pulse?" You're SURE #2 Wire and Connector is getting 12v, right? I'll presume, "YES", since you said it lit up with the noid light. Hmmmmmmmmm, very strange. I mean, if you got NO voltage to the connector....the first thing I would say is "IT'S GOT to be the Y-Connection in the harness where the Power Supply Wire(No.10 or No.20 on the ECU) splits into 2(thus, the {Y} )" BUT, since there's power to that connector... I'm kinda baffled.
I can't recall off hand if the ECU drivers(what controls pulse ratio) are a total of 4. I don't think so, but I can't be sure, as I said. I know a guy who could answer this RIGHT OFF, but he's on Vacation...promised not to bother him, lol.
IF, by some chance, you got a fluke-light up with the Noid for #2 Connector(as it, it was BARELY hanging on by a thread .... and NOW, if you test it again, you get NOTHING, no voltage to #2 Connector... I would DEFINITELY suggest tearing back the harness to the "Y" connections for the injectors(I believe it's #2 & #4 that are on the same Sender Signal..... Maybe No.20, guysssss?, lol. I'm trying, C, lol) .
01-24-2011, 03:06 PM
#32
Hmmmmmmmm! DANG, these stupid gremlins! lol..
Well, I'm wondering... "Could it have 12V from the source of power... but not be getting ALLOWED power, which is Pulsing, from the ECU?"
There are components that ONLY show power for a split second while turning the key from on to IGN position on the key, etc.(meaning, 'show power when voltage testing through the ECU')
I'm trying to remember, without the FSM pages in front of me, ..... WHAT, exactly, is the routing? I'm pretty sure it comes through the ECU, then the Injector Resistor, to the "Y" Connections and on to the injectors....... which should be 5V, I believe. Sorry I'm so overwhelmed with my own project right now....I've forgotten half of my Memory Storage! lol. DANG, getting older is becoming apparent, more and more every day, lol.
I'm pretty sure, as well, that the Noid light is testing at 5-6V, not 12v. That's because, the Injector resistor limits the voltage that low, from what I remember.
I'm going to have to read up on this, C, I'm sorry. You have 8 pins, total, on the 4 injectors, ya know? So, need to figure out why you're only getting power to #2 when the keys on, .......and, WHY YOU'RE EVEN GETTING POWER AT ALL, if it wont pulse.... Know what I'm saying? What I mean is, it's limited by the resistor on the fender wall.... and it's allowed through the ECU. i would imagine it's one of those 3 things causing your issue.
a. Wiring
b. ECU
c. Resistor
..........I really can't understand how it could be b. or c. .... .but that's because, as I said, I have to read up on this, lol.
Well, I'm wondering... "Could it have 12V from the source of power... but not be getting ALLOWED power, which is Pulsing, from the ECU?"
There are components that ONLY show power for a split second while turning the key from on to IGN position on the key, etc.(meaning, 'show power when voltage testing through the ECU')
I'm trying to remember, without the FSM pages in front of me, ..... WHAT, exactly, is the routing? I'm pretty sure it comes through the ECU, then the Injector Resistor, to the "Y" Connections and on to the injectors....... which should be 5V, I believe. Sorry I'm so overwhelmed with my own project right now....I've forgotten half of my Memory Storage! lol. DANG, getting older is becoming apparent, more and more every day, lol.
I'm pretty sure, as well, that the Noid light is testing at 5-6V, not 12v. That's because, the Injector resistor limits the voltage that low, from what I remember.
I'm going to have to read up on this, C, I'm sorry. You have 8 pins, total, on the 4 injectors, ya know? So, need to figure out why you're only getting power to #2 when the keys on, .......and, WHY YOU'RE EVEN GETTING POWER AT ALL, if it wont pulse.... Know what I'm saying? What I mean is, it's limited by the resistor on the fender wall.... and it's allowed through the ECU. i would imagine it's one of those 3 things causing your issue.
a. Wiring
b. ECU
c. Resistor
..........I really can't understand how it could be b. or c. .... .but that's because, as I said, I have to read up on this, lol.
01-25-2011, 05:16 PM
#33
Well...its fixed!!!!!!!!!!!long story short ,im an idiot! i just overlooked something im not used to.it was the wire coming out of the resister,put a jumper on it,fired right up!!ill elaborate later..im at work.
Last edited by cman1; 01-25-2011 at 05:17 PM.
01-26-2011, 10:29 AM
#35
what happened was, i had too many thing going at once.next time...more patience!!! it ended up being the wire coming out of the plug from the resister into the harness.i started at the ecm with a 12v light tester and when i got to the point just past the connector,it sounded like sand was in the wire...bent it and it broke in half immedietely!!! i was never so happy to break a friggin wire!! so,i jumpered the connector to the previous spot i had soldered new wires in,hit the key,and vwoooom!!!! 
thanx to the crew,especially chef!! this is the longest it has EVER taken me to figure out an issue on an automobile.thanx again guys.
thanx to the crew,especially chef!! this is the longest it has EVER taken me to figure out an issue on an automobile.thanx again guys.
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