Did lots of mods and stuck one. the head
12-05-2008, 09:04 PM
#23
Read this, it indirectly explains the reason the engine is frustrating you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_ratio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_ratio
12-05-2008, 09:07 PM
#24
Registered User
@abe.. all good points! the only thing i was arguing uh i mean discussing lol, was that you said that 22r's don't like to rev high, and that head work doesn't do allot.
no disrespect but, Ive only heard/seen the exact opposite from every engine builder i have ever talked to or read about.. and Ive been around allot of racing engines. they all claim that head work/aftermarket heads are one of the best N/A upgrades you can do to increase power... i guess we will just have to agree to disagree
no disrespect but, Ive only heard/seen the exact opposite from every engine builder i have ever talked to or read about.. and Ive been around allot of racing engines. they all claim that head work/aftermarket heads are one of the best N/A upgrades you can do to increase power... i guess we will just have to agree to disagree
12-05-2008, 09:11 PM
#26
Registered User
12-05-2008, 09:12 PM
#27
The 22RE is "undersquared" meaning the piston stoke is longer than the cylinder width.
From wiki:
A piston engine is undersquare or longstroke if its cylinders have a smaller bore (width, diameter) than stroke (length of piston travel). This can be a negative trait, since a longer stroke usually means greater friction, more stress on the crankshaft, and a smaller bore means smaller valves which restricts gaseous exchange; however, with the aid of modern technology, these are not the large problems that they used to be. An undersquare engine usually has a lower redline than an oversquare one, but it may generate more low-end torque. In addition, a longstroke or undersquare engine can have a higher compression ratio with the same octane fuel compared to a similar displacement engine with a higher bore/stroke ratio. This also equals better fuel economy and somewhat better emissions. An undersquare engine does not overheat as easily as similar oversquare engine. Engines can be modified with a "stroker" crankshaft, which increases an engines stroke from stock, increasing torque.
Undersquare engines typically are, proportionally, shorter in length, heavier, and taller than equivalent oversquare ones, which is one of the reasons why this type of engine is not generally used.
Many British automobile companies used undersquare designs through the 1950s, largely because of a motor tax system that taxed cars by their cylinder bore. Therefore, many of the most famous cars of that era use this design. This includes the Austin A-Series engine and many Nissan derivatives.
The Chrysler Slant-6, in the most common 225 cubic inch (3.7 L) version, is a massively undersquare engine with a 3.40" (86 mm) bore and a 4.125" (105 mm) stroke, producing most of its power right on the peak of its torque curve. The achilles heel of this engine, otherwise known for its exceptional durability, is being over-revved by inexperienced drivers. Red line for a factory engine is under 4,500 rpm; red line with aftermarket connecting rods is about 5,500 rpm. On the other hand, a well-maintained Slant-6 can be made to idle as low as 75 rpm (though this is *not* a recommended speed, neither the alternator nor the oil pump will function adequately). In some circles, the Slant-6 is nicknamed "The Stump-Puller" for its diesel-like low-speed torque. Appropriate gearing and driving skill is required for performance use.
Willys also used mostly undersquare engines, in fact the L134 and F134 engines, with their fairly small 3.125 inch (79.4 mm) bore and 4.375 inch (111.1 mm) stroke, are probably the most undersquare engines ever built (for Jeeps).
The Dodge Power Wagon, amoung other vehicles, used a Straight-6 Chrysler Flathead engine of 230 cubic inches (3.8L) with a bore of 3.25" (83mm) and a stroke of 4.625" (117mm) yielding a substantially under-square stroke ratio of 0.70.
Nowadays, undersquare engines tend to be quite rare, but this form of engine is still used in some applications. For example, a modern 8.4 liter Valmet 645 inline-6 tractor diesel engine is a longstroke/undersquare engine, but has an output of over 300 horsepower (224 kW) with turbocharger and intercooler. The popular Mazda Miata also uses an undersquare engine.
From wiki:
A piston engine is undersquare or longstroke if its cylinders have a smaller bore (width, diameter) than stroke (length of piston travel). This can be a negative trait, since a longer stroke usually means greater friction, more stress on the crankshaft, and a smaller bore means smaller valves which restricts gaseous exchange; however, with the aid of modern technology, these are not the large problems that they used to be. An undersquare engine usually has a lower redline than an oversquare one, but it may generate more low-end torque. In addition, a longstroke or undersquare engine can have a higher compression ratio with the same octane fuel compared to a similar displacement engine with a higher bore/stroke ratio. This also equals better fuel economy and somewhat better emissions. An undersquare engine does not overheat as easily as similar oversquare engine. Engines can be modified with a "stroker" crankshaft, which increases an engines stroke from stock, increasing torque.
Undersquare engines typically are, proportionally, shorter in length, heavier, and taller than equivalent oversquare ones, which is one of the reasons why this type of engine is not generally used.
Many British automobile companies used undersquare designs through the 1950s, largely because of a motor tax system that taxed cars by their cylinder bore. Therefore, many of the most famous cars of that era use this design. This includes the Austin A-Series engine and many Nissan derivatives.
The Chrysler Slant-6, in the most common 225 cubic inch (3.7 L) version, is a massively undersquare engine with a 3.40" (86 mm) bore and a 4.125" (105 mm) stroke, producing most of its power right on the peak of its torque curve. The achilles heel of this engine, otherwise known for its exceptional durability, is being over-revved by inexperienced drivers. Red line for a factory engine is under 4,500 rpm; red line with aftermarket connecting rods is about 5,500 rpm. On the other hand, a well-maintained Slant-6 can be made to idle as low as 75 rpm (though this is *not* a recommended speed, neither the alternator nor the oil pump will function adequately). In some circles, the Slant-6 is nicknamed "The Stump-Puller" for its diesel-like low-speed torque. Appropriate gearing and driving skill is required for performance use.
Willys also used mostly undersquare engines, in fact the L134 and F134 engines, with their fairly small 3.125 inch (79.4 mm) bore and 4.375 inch (111.1 mm) stroke, are probably the most undersquare engines ever built (for Jeeps).
The Dodge Power Wagon, amoung other vehicles, used a Straight-6 Chrysler Flathead engine of 230 cubic inches (3.8L) with a bore of 3.25" (83mm) and a stroke of 4.625" (117mm) yielding a substantially under-square stroke ratio of 0.70.
Nowadays, undersquare engines tend to be quite rare, but this form of engine is still used in some applications. For example, a modern 8.4 liter Valmet 645 inline-6 tractor diesel engine is a longstroke/undersquare engine, but has an output of over 300 horsepower (224 kW) with turbocharger and intercooler. The popular Mazda Miata also uses an undersquare engine.
12-05-2008, 09:14 PM
#28
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the issue i guess i get to come to is that i been wasting my time on a motor that is simply just reliable and not powerful. I think I'll build the 3s-gte motor. They say i can get into about 350 ponies out of it.
12-05-2008, 09:15 PM
#29
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@abe.. all good points! the only thing i was arguing uh i mean discussing lol, was that you said that 22r's don't like to rev high, and that head work doesn't do allot.
no disrespect but, Ive only heard/seen the exact opposite from every engine builder i have ever talked to or read about.. and Ive been around allot of racing engines. they all claim that head work/aftermarket heads are one of the best N/A upgrades you can do to increase power... i guess we will just have to agree to disagree
no disrespect but, Ive only heard/seen the exact opposite from every engine builder i have ever talked to or read about.. and Ive been around allot of racing engines. they all claim that head work/aftermarket heads are one of the best N/A upgrades you can do to increase power... i guess we will just have to agree to disagree
you're dealing with a fairly long stroke engine so they don't like to rev high and head mods don't do alot to help.
the engine is almost as well balanced, torque to horsepower wise, as it can be. Higher compression is about the only way you can raise the power without sacrificing the low end torque. The long stroke is what gives the 22re what torque it has.
anything more than 150-200 hp or so from a 22re, is going to be killing the bottom end so much you can't easily drive it on the street.
head mods will help, but there's not a lot you can do to the head itself.
and they're not like a 440 6-pack than might idle lumpy and still be driveable on the street and make 800 horsepower.
12-05-2008, 09:17 PM
#31
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3sgte is not going to help your truck out.
if you really want a project like that...
http://www.supracharged.com/
if you really want a project like that...
http://www.supracharged.com/
12-05-2008, 09:20 PM
#33
You may also want to revise you choice of vehicles, 4x4s aren't made to be fast. Its going to be tough to make a top heavy 4-5k lbs vehicle with the aerodynamics of a cathedral feel fast no matter what you do. What said putting a 3.4 V6 is a v. popular swap and is quite easily done on a 3.0L V6 4Runner/ truck.
12-05-2008, 09:22 PM
#35
From Abe's link:
"This conversion is a 1987 Winnebago motorhome Oringally it came with a 22RE 4cyl motor. Stock power on these is around 110bhp. I will be installing a Lexus 1UZ-FE v8 engine. These engines produce 240hp and 260ft/lbs of torque, for twice the power as stock, but hope to retain the same gas mileage."
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
"This conversion is a 1987 Winnebago motorhome Oringally it came with a 22RE 4cyl motor. Stock power on these is around 110bhp. I will be installing a Lexus 1UZ-FE v8 engine. These engines produce 240hp and 260ft/lbs of torque, for twice the power as stock, but hope to retain the same gas mileage."
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
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