Cracked Cylinder - Page 3

addicted56 · 08-05-2008, 04:59 AM

Holy Cow,

I've never seen it so bad it actually ran out the tail pipe. I helped my buddy replace an engine in an early 90's mercedes and luckily the owner he was doing it for bought the insurance as well. We went thru 2 bad engines and the 3rd was crap as well but good enough to drive off on. I'm sure that company lost an arm and a leg on that one.

They deserve it though. Most of those places are run by dirt bags and they should know better about the engines they are selling.

I feel bad for th owner. Now he has to wait a lot longer. Well I guess he is a dealer so he doesn't care to much but still. If that happened to me, heads would be rolling.

mt_goat · 08-05-2008, 06:39 AM

Wow... that's really bad. I'm surprised it didn't hydro-lock it with coolant.

zlathim · 08-05-2008, 06:41 AM

I am very curious to see how this all plays out with the warranty. The customer had the engine shipped directly to my house, so I got all of the paperwork with it. I read through the warranty stuff last night, and it seems that he bought a labor warranty for $45, but it only covers up to $300 in labor. Hell, I total underestimated the book hours (I charged just over 11 hours, but AllData says 17 hours I found out this morning) and the labor bill was $450. So he is not even close to being covered.

What I would like to see is this: Engine supplier sends us a head gasket set, and a pair of KNOWN GOOD heads ( I have no way of knowing at this point if they are cracked from being overheated) + the $300 labor warranty. If we can get that, I will bite the bullet and get this thing finished. It will be a loss on my end, as AllData shows 12 hours for just the headgasket (both banks) job. If we can swing this, my customer will be happy, I will be satisfied and all is well with the world. I think that getting the engine supplier to buy off on this deal may be easier said than done, but I don't really know because I have never dealt with them directly. My customer has purchased several engines from them, so maybe that will help. Time will tell.

So, in hashing this all out with the customer last night on the phone I had to tell him " I know you don't want to hear this right now, but I need to invoice you and get paid for my labor and the few parts I had to buy." he says no problem, I will bring you a check tomorrow. I'm gonna take care of him, but I can't wait until this all shakes out to get paid. Crumby deal, but business is business. If I didn't need the money I wouldn't be doing it.

zlathim · 08-05-2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_goat

Wow... that's really bad. I'm surprised it didn't hydro-lock it with coolant.

You and me both!

zlathim · 08-05-2008, 07:30 AM

addicted- Did you get possession of the 4Runner yet?

addicted56 · 08-05-2008, 01:33 PM

No!!!!

The guy is killing me. He is the type that doesn't seem to be be to motivated to do anything. I guess it has been there 3 years and it hasn't been towed so he is not worreid (I COULD TAKE CARE OF THAT)....but I'm not that kida of person either. It would kill me to see it sit there and rot away. He said himself he doesn't want to deal with and I'm sure he knows (as do I) you can't rebuild one of these for the same amount of money you can just go out and buy one....well for the most part..but if you had to pay someone else(which he would) he coudln't.

Anyway I'm just getting a bit anxious about it. I only have 3 days to get the truck then drive up get the engine and get all of the paper work off back to Oregon to get it registered and titled so when I'm done working on it this weekend (If I can even line up any help now) I can drive it home.

As far as your engine sounds like you are working for a pretty good guy and I'm guessing if he buys a lot of engines from him he will honor the contract. But 300 labor costs. That is rediclous.

zlathim · 08-05-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by addicted56

No!!!!

The guy is killing me. He is the type that doesn't seem to be be to motivated to do anything. I guess it has been there 3 years and it hasn't been towed so he is not worreid (I COULD TAKE CARE OF THAT)....but I'm not that kida of person either. It would kill me to see it sit there and rot away. He said himself he doesn't want to deal with and I'm sure he knows (as do I) you can't rebuild one of these for the same amount of money you can just go out and buy one....well for the most part..but if you had to pay someone else(which he would) he coudln't.

Anyway I'm just getting a bit anxious about it. I only have 3 days to get the truck then drive up get the engine and get all of the paper work off back to Oregon to get it registered and titled so when I'm done working on it this weekend (If I can even line up any help now) I can drive it home.

As far as your engine sounds like you are working for a pretty good guy and I'm guessing if he buys a lot of engines from him he will honor the contract. But 300 labor costs. That is rediclous.

Dang! I hate it when some lazy a$$ kills an otherwise perfect plan! I am pulling for you to make it happen though

BTW- Where are you located? I'm in Boise.

zlathim · 08-05-2008, 02:32 PM

Well, I found out what the engine supplier needs for proof.
First and foremost he requires the numbers off the heat witness tabs epoxyed to the rear of the cylinder head. I couldn't really read it very well with my little mirror, so I sent him a pic of both of them to prove they are not melted or gone.

They require a block test to determine the presence of exhaust gasses in the cooling system. To be honest with you, I'm not a real big fan of the test, but it is quick and dirty. I got the tester and fluid from Autozone and this is what it looked like after two minutes:

The engine builder also mentioned that if the old engine had blown a head gasket, we might still be seeing residual coolant in the pipes and muffler burning. Uhm, no. I sent this picture to them:

So the engine supplier sees these pics and agrees that it has a blown head gasket. They are paying the $300 labor warranty as spelled out in the agreement, and they are sending me a head gasket set. They are not sending me new head bolts. I'm not happy about that one little bit, but it is what it is. I take the cylinder heads to the machine shop and get them checked. If they are bad the supplier sends me a set of heads.

I told my customer that I would do him a solid and do the labor for the $300. He has been staedy work for me for about a year now, and pays on pick-up EVERY TIME so it's all good. He's bringing me the next project tomorrow to do my initial diagnosis. It will likely need an engine too. He has mentioed buying a re-man long block next time.

addicted56 · 08-05-2008, 06:06 PM

What a crock.

300 for labor. How about you sell me a good product instead. People just suck I guess.

I'm currently on Ft. Bragg in NC but I'm a native of Coos Bay Oregon and will be heading back to the great state when I'm done with my stint.

zlathim · 08-06-2008, 06:53 AM

Oh, OK. I know you mentioned Oregon earlier in this thread. I thought if you were somewhere in eastern Oregon I could give you a hand with your swap.

Any news from the dipstick 4runner guy? Are you holding off on getting the engine until the runner is officially yours?

addicted56 · 08-06-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zlathim

Oh, OK. I know you mentioned Oregon earlier in this thread. I thought if you were somewhere in eastern Oregon I could give you a hand with your swap.

Any news from the dipstick 4runner guy? Are you holding off on getting the engine until the runner is officially yours?

I am going to give him one more call today and if no answer then I'm just giving up. He can contact me and if I still have the money (been putting a bit aside for it) then I might go for it. No I do not have the the engine and I need to tell the guy "again" not to hold his breath for me as I don't want to dissapoint.

I just don't get some people. I understand everybody things their $&*^% don't stink and that their crap is worth gold but here in reality the thing has been sitting 4 years. My command told me to get the thing towed and I'm doing him a favor by #1 informing him he should move it....#2 offering to buy it for a fair price (3 on ebay in the last 2 weeks in same condition with no engine for the same 500 dollar offer) #3 taking it off his hands. It will sit and rott forever.

Ohh well what can I say. I can't offer him any more money (even if that is the problem...who knows maybe he has just been busy) becuase the thing just isn't worth it.

HOpefully my final post here isn't tonight with a no go deal. I was really excited for it.

mt_goat · 08-06-2008, 09:02 AM

I had a guy do that to me on an old Taurus. I finally had to give him a deadline, at which point I was walking away. That got him motivated enough to make the deal. I'm still pissed at that guy for dragging his feet.

addicted56 · 08-06-2008, 04:41 PM

I could have sworn I made a post already but must not have hit submit.

Anyway the guy finally called me and I'm going to get the 4-runner at 0900 tomorrow morning. Apperently the title is already in my name (but it is a NC title...not sure if I am/can keep that one as all my stuff is in Oregon...but anyway it should be mine tomorrow morning. If all goes well I can leave work early and head up and pick up the engine....I will be broke at that point for another week though. Hopefully enough spare change to pay for the autoskills shop.

I will take some better pictures of the thing tomorrow, and give an update. Unable to get anyone to help out on Friday night but Saturday morning I'm hitting it strong.

zlathim · 08-06-2008, 08:16 PM

Cool man! I can't wait to see the pictures!

I'm glad you finally got something to happen with that guy, I was thinking it might be hopeless after you said you were gonna try one last time and then forget about it. Good perseverance!

addicted56 · 08-07-2008, 07:45 AM

Tis MINE!!!!

I will put some pictures up later but basically looks like another White 4-runner.

The engine compartment is a bit ugly but not to worried. They had taken of the head on the drivers side so the cylinders are completely rusted. All of the brackets and pulleys that are still on are rusted as well. Not horrible but it is there.

The biggest thing that is going to stink is I have no vaccume hoses to mark. Since they took the head off everything is disconnected

Hopefully my manual here tells me where everything goes as that is going to be a real pain in the butt.

Interior is pretty nice minus 2 cracks on the dash from sun and one small tear in the drivers seat from getting in and out.

Will be putting on the spare tire this afternoon, airing up the others tomorrow with my tank and bringing back the battery charged to see if all the electronics work.

Off to pick up the engine tonight or tomorrow.

zlathim · 08-07-2008, 08:37 AM

Fantastic! I'm glad that you finally got it.

Take some pictures of the disconnected vac lines. Most of them should be on the pass side inner fender area if your runner is set up like the pickup I am dealing with. I might be able to help if I can see some good photos.

What year is the 4 runner?

addicted56 · 08-07-2008, 10:03 AM

Yes,

Most of the hoses are over there. I am going to look thru this manual I have but I may need your help on those pictures. There sure are a lot of them.

It is a 92 model. Not to saggy as some I've seen are really bad. Especailly considering it had those few extra parts in the back of it.

Did notice the jack under the seat is missing though. Good thing I brought mine from home. I'll see how she sits when I get the spare on.

zlathim · 08-07-2008, 10:09 AM

I know it looks daunting, but it is not as bad as it seems. You'll have that thing up and running in no time.

Here is a pic of the majority of the lines and stuff:

addicted56 · 08-07-2008, 12:35 PM

Thank you,

Real pictures are worth a million words.

I found some pictures in my Manual but there are so many of them they are hard to read. I'm going to print that picture out for reference.

Thanks.

08-05-2008, 04:59 AM	#51 (permalink)
addicted56 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 140	Holy Cow, I've never seen it so bad it actually ran out the tail pipe. I helped my buddy replace an engine in an early 90's mercedes and luckily the owner he was doing it for bought the insurance as well. We went thru 2 bad engines and the 3rd was crap as well but good enough to drive off on. I'm sure that company lost an arm and a leg on that one. They deserve it though. Most of those places are run by dirt bags and they should know better about the engines they are selling. I feel bad for th owner. Now he has to wait a lot longer. Well I guess he is a dealer so he doesn't care to much but still. If that happened to me, heads would be rolling. __________________ Addicted to all thing automotive. 1956 Ford F-100 (Cummins 4bt) 1968 Dodge Power Wagon (Slant 6..no plans yet) 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser (Soon to be OM617) 1992 Toyota 4-Runner (3.Crap engine..wish it was diesel) 1997 Ford F0250 (Power Stroke) 2006 Volkswagon Jetta (1.9L TD)..."Wife's Ride"

08-05-2008, 06:39 AM	#52 (permalink)
mt_goat Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State Posts: 7,433	Wow... that's really bad. I'm surprised it didn't hydro-lock it with coolant. __________________ Dale "America is in a hole and it's getting deeper every day. We import 70% of our oil at a cost of $700 billion a year - four times the annual cost of the Iraq war." T. Boone Pickens Check out the plan: http://www.pickensplan.com/index.php and http://www.cngnow.com/EN-US/Pages/default.aspx

08-05-2008, 06:41 AM	#53 (permalink)
zlathim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	I am very curious to see how this all plays out with the warranty. The customer had the engine shipped directly to my house, so I got all of the paperwork with it. I read through the warranty stuff last night, and it seems that he bought a labor warranty for $45, but it only covers up to $300 in labor. Hell, I total underestimated the book hours (I charged just over 11 hours, but AllData says 17 hours I found out this morning) and the labor bill was $450. So he is not even close to being covered. What I would like to see is this: Engine supplier sends us a head gasket set, and a pair of KNOWN GOOD heads ( I have no way of knowing at this point if they are cracked from being overheated) + the $300 labor warranty. If we can get that, I will bite the bullet and get this thing finished. It will be a loss on my end, as AllData shows 12 hours for just the headgasket (both banks) job. If we can swing this, my customer will be happy, I will be satisfied and all is well with the world. I think that getting the engine supplier to buy off on this deal may be easier said than done, but I don't really know because I have never dealt with them directly. My customer has purchased several engines from them, so maybe that will help. Time will tell. So, in hashing this all out with the customer last night on the phone I had to tell him " I know you don't want to hear this right now, but I need to invoice you and get paid for my labor and the few parts I had to buy." he says no problem, I will bring you a check tomorrow. I'm gonna take care of him, but I can't wait until this all shakes out to get paid. Crumby deal, but business is business. If I didn't need the money I wouldn't be doing it. __________________ Do you think Einstein walked around thinking everyone was a bunch of dipsticks? Idiocracy (edited for family friendly viewing)

08-05-2008, 07:30 AM	#55 (permalink)
zlathim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	addicted- Did you get possession of the 4Runner yet? __________________ Do you think Einstein walked around thinking everyone was a bunch of dipsticks? Idiocracy (edited for family friendly viewing)

08-05-2008, 01:33 PM	#56 (permalink)
addicted56 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 140	No!!!! The guy is killing me. He is the type that doesn't seem to be be to motivated to do anything. I guess it has been there 3 years and it hasn't been towed so he is not worreid (I COULD TAKE CARE OF THAT)....but I'm not that kida of person either. It would kill me to see it sit there and rot away. He said himself he doesn't want to deal with and I'm sure he knows (as do I) you can't rebuild one of these for the same amount of money you can just go out and buy one....well for the most part..but if you had to pay someone else(which he would) he coudln't. Anyway I'm just getting a bit anxious about it. I only have 3 days to get the truck then drive up get the engine and get all of the paper work off back to Oregon to get it registered and titled so when I'm done working on it this weekend (If I can even line up any help now) I can drive it home. As far as your engine sounds like you are working for a pretty good guy and I'm guessing if he buys a lot of engines from him he will honor the contract. But 300 labor costs. That is rediclous. __________________ Addicted to all thing automotive. 1956 Ford F-100 (Cummins 4bt) 1968 Dodge Power Wagon (Slant 6..no plans yet) 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser (Soon to be OM617) 1992 Toyota 4-Runner (3.Crap engine..wish it was diesel) 1997 Ford F0250 (Power Stroke) 2006 Volkswagon Jetta (1.9L TD)..."Wife's Ride"

08-05-2008, 02:32 PM	#58 (permalink)
zlathim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	Well, I found out what the engine supplier needs for proof. First and foremost he requires the numbers off the heat witness tabs epoxyed to the rear of the cylinder head. I couldn't really read it very well with my little mirror, so I sent him a pic of both of them to prove they are not melted or gone. They require a block test to determine the presence of exhaust gasses in the cooling system. To be honest with you, I'm not a real big fan of the test, but it is quick and dirty. I got the tester and fluid from Autozone and this is what it looked like after two minutes: The engine builder also mentioned that if the old engine had blown a head gasket, we might still be seeing residual coolant in the pipes and muffler burning. Uhm, no. I sent this picture to them: So the engine supplier sees these pics and agrees that it has a blown head gasket. They are paying the $300 labor warranty as spelled out in the agreement, and they are sending me a head gasket set. They are not sending me new head bolts. I'm not happy about that one little bit, but it is what it is. I take the cylinder heads to the machine shop and get them checked. If they are bad the supplier sends me a set of heads. I told my customer that I would do him a solid and do the labor for the $300. He has been staedy work for me for about a year now, and pays on pick-up EVERY TIME so it's all good. He's bringing me the next project tomorrow to do my initial diagnosis. It will likely need an engine too. He has mentioed buying a re-man long block next time. __________________ Do you think Einstein walked around thinking everyone was a bunch of dipsticks? Idiocracy (edited for family friendly viewing) Last edited by zlathim : 08-05-2008 at 02:57 PM.

08-05-2008, 06:06 PM	#59 (permalink)
addicted56 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 140	What a crock. 300 for labor. How about you sell me a good product instead. People just suck I guess. I'm currently on Ft. Bragg in NC but I'm a native of Coos Bay Oregon and will be heading back to the great state when I'm done with my stint. __________________ Addicted to all thing automotive. 1956 Ford F-100 (Cummins 4bt) 1968 Dodge Power Wagon (Slant 6..no plans yet) 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser (Soon to be OM617) 1992 Toyota 4-Runner (3.Crap engine..wish it was diesel) 1997 Ford F0250 (Power Stroke) 2006 Volkswagon Jetta (1.9L TD)..."Wife's Ride"

08-06-2008, 06:53 AM	#60 (permalink)
zlathim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	Oh, OK. I know you mentioned Oregon earlier in this thread. I thought if you were somewhere in eastern Oregon I could give you a hand with your swap. Any news from the dipstick 4runner guy? Are you holding off on getting the engine until the runner is officially yours? __________________ Do you think Einstein walked around thinking everyone was a bunch of dipsticks? Idiocracy (edited for family friendly viewing)

08-06-2008, 09:02 AM	#62 (permalink)
mt_goat Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State Posts: 7,433	I had a guy do that to me on an old Taurus. I finally had to give him a deadline, at which point I was walking away. That got him motivated enough to make the deal. I'm still pissed at that guy for dragging his feet. __________________ Dale "America is in a hole and it's getting deeper every day. We import 70% of our oil at a cost of $700 billion a year - four times the annual cost of the Iraq war." T. Boone Pickens Check out the plan: http://www.pickensplan.com/index.php and http://www.cngnow.com/EN-US/Pages/default.aspx

08-06-2008, 04:41 PM	#63 (permalink)
addicted56 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 140	I could have sworn I made a post already but must not have hit submit. Anyway the guy finally called me and I'm going to get the 4-runner at 0900 tomorrow morning. Apperently the title is already in my name (but it is a NC title...not sure if I am/can keep that one as all my stuff is in Oregon...but anyway it should be mine tomorrow morning. If all goes well I can leave work early and head up and pick up the engine....I will be broke at that point for another week though. Hopefully enough spare change to pay for the autoskills shop. I will take some better pictures of the thing tomorrow, and give an update. Unable to get anyone to help out on Friday night but Saturday morning I'm hitting it strong. __________________ Addicted to all thing automotive. 1956 Ford F-100 (Cummins 4bt) 1968 Dodge Power Wagon (Slant 6..no plans yet) 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser (Soon to be OM617) 1992 Toyota 4-Runner (3.Crap engine..wish it was diesel) 1997 Ford F0250 (Power Stroke) 2006 Volkswagon Jetta (1.9L TD)..."Wife's Ride"

08-06-2008, 08:16 PM	#64 (permalink)
zlathim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	Cool man! I can't wait to see the pictures! I'm glad you finally got something to happen with that guy, I was thinking it might be hopeless after you said you were gonna try one last time and then forget about it. Good perseverance! __________________ Do you think Einstein walked around thinking everyone was a bunch of dipsticks? Idiocracy (edited for family friendly viewing)

08-07-2008, 07:45 AM	#65 (permalink)
addicted56 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 140	Tis MINE!!!! I will put some pictures up later but basically looks like another White 4-runner. The engine compartment is a bit ugly but not to worried. They had taken of the head on the drivers side so the cylinders are completely rusted. All of the brackets and pulleys that are still on are rusted as well. Not horrible but it is there. The biggest thing that is going to stink is I have no vaccume hoses to mark. Since they took the head off everything is disconnected Hopefully my manual here tells me where everything goes as that is going to be a real pain in the butt. Interior is pretty nice minus 2 cracks on the dash from sun and one small tear in the drivers seat from getting in and out. Will be putting on the spare tire this afternoon, airing up the others tomorrow with my tank and bringing back the battery charged to see if all the electronics work. Off to pick up the engine tonight or tomorrow. __________________ Addicted to all thing automotive. 1956 Ford F-100 (Cummins 4bt) 1968 Dodge Power Wagon (Slant 6..no plans yet) 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser (Soon to be OM617) 1992 Toyota 4-Runner (3.Crap engine..wish it was diesel) 1997 Ford F0250 (Power Stroke) 2006 Volkswagon Jetta (1.9L TD)..."Wife's Ride"

08-07-2008, 08:37 AM	#66 (permalink)
zlathim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	Fantastic! I'm glad that you finally got it. Take some pictures of the disconnected vac lines. Most of them should be on the pass side inner fender area if your runner is set up like the pickup I am dealing with. I might be able to help if I can see some good photos. What year is the 4 runner? __________________ Do you think Einstein walked around thinking everyone was a bunch of dipsticks? Idiocracy (edited for family friendly viewing)

08-07-2008, 10:03 AM	#67 (permalink)
addicted56 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 140	Yes, Most of the hoses are over there. I am going to look thru this manual I have but I may need your help on those pictures. There sure are a lot of them. It is a 92 model. Not to saggy as some I've seen are really bad. Especailly considering it had those few extra parts in the back of it. Did notice the jack under the seat is missing though. Good thing I brought mine from home. I'll see how she sits when I get the spare on. __________________ Addicted to all thing automotive. 1956 Ford F-100 (Cummins 4bt) 1968 Dodge Power Wagon (Slant 6..no plans yet) 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser (Soon to be OM617) 1992 Toyota 4-Runner (3.Crap engine..wish it was diesel) 1997 Ford F0250 (Power Stroke) 2006 Volkswagon Jetta (1.9L TD)..."Wife's Ride"

08-07-2008, 10:09 AM	#68 (permalink)
zlathim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	I know it looks daunting, but it is not as bad as it seems. You'll have that thing up and running in no time. Here is a pic of the majority of the lines and stuff: __________________ Do you think Einstein walked around thinking everyone was a bunch of dipsticks? Idiocracy (edited for family friendly viewing)

08-07-2008, 12:35 PM	#69 (permalink)
addicted56 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 140	Thank you, Real pictures are worth a million words. I found some pictures in my Manual but there are so many of them they are hard to read. I'm going to print that picture out for reference. Thanks. __________________ Addicted to all thing automotive. 1956 Ford F-100 (Cummins 4bt) 1968 Dodge Power Wagon (Slant 6..no plans yet) 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser (Soon to be OM617) 1992 Toyota 4-Runner (3.Crap engine..wish it was diesel) 1997 Ford F0250 (Power Stroke) 2006 Volkswagon Jetta (1.9L TD)..."Wife's Ride"