jungle_runner

88, 22re, manual. Very loud engine noise, enough to wake up the whole neighborhood.

Knocking sound increases in speed with engine RPM.

I've redone all the timing components, I've adjusted valve lash, I helicoiled a stripped stud in the head and now all exhaust bolts are torqued to spec. Knocking sound still present with valve cover removed.

Sounds like it's coming from the rear of the engine, near cylinder 4, under valve cover.

Could a crack in the head cause this (like an exhaust leak)?

The only thing that I can think to do now is rebuild the cam shaft and rocker assembly.

I noticed that the block says 22r, I'm assuming the 22re uses the same block.

Anyhow, any ideas before I began redoing the cam shaft/head.

Thanks

neilan

If you can run the engine with the valve cover off thats a problem. Did you check valve clearance?

jungle_runner

well, it ran enough so that i could hear the noise, before it died

valve clearances? isn't that the same as valve lash? valve lash is set to .008 intake side and .012 on the exhaust side. if valve clearance is something different, please enlighten me!

thanks

jungle_runner

i sprayed carb cleaner all around engine, no exhaust leaks or cracks found

PlugItIn

you set the valves hot right? you can do it cold, but its .007 and .011. Take a video of this if you can...are you sure its not a rod knocking?

Karlton

I bought a used '94 truck with a 22re. There was a slight knocking sound at a certain rpm when I let off the gas. Then one day while driving on the highway the slight knock became very loud and the truck ran rough and died a couple times. The knock was very loud. Sounded like it was coming from the cylinder head, 3rd of 4th cylinder. I removed the motor to find that I had bought a truck with a bad bearing on the #4 rod journal. The cylinder head was in good shape, but it was when the bearing got to the point where the rod and piston were slopping around and the top of the piston would occasionally slap the the underside of the cylinder head. If you think this sounds worth investigating, you could try removing your oil filter and cutting it apart and see if it's packed with a bunch of metal shavings from a bad bearing. Good luck!

jungle_runner

Karlton ... thanks, that makes a lot of sense to me, that's the kind of info I'm looking for. I've covered all the basics and I am realizing that it's time to go deeper. I just changed my oil and put in a new filter, old one already gone with the trash pick-up.

When I pull the head, can I keep the Intake and exhaust manifold attached and lift it off as one piece? Thanks

PlugItIn, yes, did 'em hot. As I said, noise is still present even with the cover removed. Or could they still cause noise on their own without valve cover there? Rod knocking? How would I determine if it's a rod knocking? Thanks

Here's that video, there was a lot of exhaust smoke but that was probably just the silicone burning off (i know, not good for O2 sensor), it's gone now:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSUWOG3pzzY[/YOUTUBE]

whokrz

http://ncttora.com/fsm/index.html
I would look into your air flow meter. Make sure the flapper door is not stuck open and operates smoothly with no drag also make sure it is clean inside by the door. Then use a ohm meter to check it.
It looks and sounds just like mine did when the flapper was stuck open.
Here is a link to Toyota FSM http://ncttora.com/fsm/index.html they have pretty good trouble shooting guides.

jungle_runner

thanks for that idea ... i checked and the flapper is closed, i was hoping though, that would have been easy ... i'll check out that link, thanks

PlugItIn

Hmm..hard to tell...you say you changed the timing components, by chance did the chain wear through the timing case and let antifreeze into the oil? That'll ruin bearings pretty quick...and cause a rod knock. You sure its happening higher up in the engine and not down by the oil pan? It sounds like an exhaust leak to me almost, but you say everything is tightened and not leaking...so i havn't a clue...

jungle_runner

timing cover was intact ...

i sprayed carb cleaner all around the exhaust manifold / head connection ... i had a small leak where the manifold meets the pipe, so i unbolted the pipe and i could still hear the knocking coming from the valve cover/head area (even over the loud exhaust, sounded like a V12)

i will purchase a mechanic's stethoscope and pin point the location or the noise

thanks for making an attempt at this problem, i think it's something in the rocker assembly or a bearing causing rod knock

thanks

myyota

My guess is a rod knock, (bad crank bearing).

whokrz

When a 22re is running rich it sounds a lot like a rod knock. I put a new head and block in my 4runner, started it up and it ran fine. I started the full throttle procedure from 30-50 to seat the rings on the 10th time the air flow meter stuck. I thought I just lost a bearing, but it didn't make sense why it was smoking. I pulled spark plug #1 to start a compression test and noticed it was wet and dark on the tip. Once I saw that I knew it was running rich. I continued the compression check found that it was ok. Then I started to eliminate things that would cause it to run rich in the FSM. Mine turned out to be the air meter, but there are many things that will cause it to run rich.

I do not know if a bad bearing will cause it to smoke while having good compression, that was just my thoughts when I had a similar problem.

I would do a compression check and see if your plugs are wet, it would suck to rebuild the engine only to have the same problem because the fuel regulator was bad.

CyMoN

dose it run ok besides the noise or is it lacking power.
I thought I had spun a bearing when I did a compression test 3rd and 4th cylinder where 10 psi.

I pulled the head on mine and there was about a quarter inch gap missing on the gasket between the 3rd and 4th cylinder.

when I pulled the head I left the intake on but unbolted the exhaust manifold.

jungle_runner

Yes Sir! Thank you for that information ... I will do a compression check ... I want to do everything I can to test before I pull the head ... So, if I have good compression then a bad bearing is improbable?

Also, thanks for the link to the FSMs ... I've been reading it like it was a best selling novel ... the suspense, the drama ... I almost shed a tear ha haa!

PlugItIn

you can have good compression and have a bad bearing...

jungle_runner

i bought a mechanic's stethoscope ... noise is loudest from the block, on exhaust and intake sides ... a lot of tinging near exhaust ports 3 & 4 on the exhaust manifold, which makes sense though if the piston/rod is clanging around in there

is there anything else i should replace besides the bearing while i'm in there?

can i replace the bearing from the bottom, by removing the oil pan? or would you recommend going in from the top ... i've never taken a head off before ... any tips/advice would be great ... thanks

screech

I am lost, thought we were talking about a rod bearing. Rod bearings are on the crankshaft. You have to pull the motor and remove the oil pan. Heard you could do this procedure without pulling the engine, but you will have 8 bolts left after removing the head to remove the engine.
the head bolts- check for length and corrosion. 6.417 is the length of the head bolts. I only had to replace 3 of mine. at 8 or 9 bucks a piece and 10 of them, go with ARP studs.
I have used copper gaskets, felpro and cometic (toyota) type. cometic are the most durable for normal applications. Run about 60 bucks at the dealership if I remember correctly.
I normally change the intake and exhaust studs and nuts to a size 12 on intake and 14 on exhaust if they are all different sizes. takes about an hour to 2 hours to remove a head 2 hours if you fidling around.
The FSM and Haynes manual say put rtv on the front of the block. Its not the freakin block place a little, LITTLE amount on the timing cover. If rtv gets on the block it will seperate the head gasket. yes I have been there.
Take the upper intake manifold off. then the lower one. Dont forget about the fuel line that has copper crush washers on it that run from upper to lower manifold.
If you take the upper intake manifold off, you can access the heater core line on the lower part easier. There is a 12mm bolt on the back of the head that also this line connects to.
Change your fuel filter while the head is off.

There should be a tech write up on this.

You could swap in a stage 1 cam from lc engineering while the head is off. since I recommend to swap a head gasket if you swap cams. The cam journal bolts are under the rocker shaft assy.
Also.... The intake manifold bolt that runs in front of the thermostat housing. should be a allen head bolt if its stock.
PB Blaster is your friend! soak down your bolts for a good hour prior to attempting to remove any.
You could also change your injector o-rings while your waiting for the machine shop to mill your head.
take lots of pictures if this is your first experience of removing a head, to ensure you know your vaccum line and electrical connections are correct when you install everything. I always have a few connections dumbfounding me.

PlugItIn

you can do the main bearings from the bottom...you just have to drop down the front drivetrain and then the oil pan. Its not too bad...hook an oil pressure gauge up to your block...if theres a bad bearing low oil pressure would be a symptom

jungle_runner

screech, thanks for the detailed post, i will reference it when i do pull the head and will look into an engnbldr stage 1 cam ... for now though i'm going to go the quicker route, removing the front dif and oil pan ... i had to do that already when i replaced the timing components, had to clean out the oil pan ... wish i would have known about the bearing when i was already in there ... oh well ... i'm getting my lessons, one way or the other, that's why i bought an old rig, to learn about engines ... thanks guys for the help, much appreciated!