3.0 dual oil filters installed
07-12-2010, 06:14 AM
#21
My 4'8" Irish grandma always thought if 2 aspirin work so good why not just take 4.
I understand the theory, just don't know necessarily that it is a beneficial practice.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, theory and practice are different.
In theory, nothing works but we know why.
In practice it works but we don't know why.
When theory and practice come together nothing works and we don't know why.
I understand the theory, just don't know necessarily that it is a beneficial practice.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, theory and practice are different.
In theory, nothing works but we know why.
In practice it works but we don't know why.
When theory and practice come together nothing works and we don't know why.
Last edited by waskillywabbit; 07-12-2010 at 06:15 AM.
07-12-2010, 06:43 AM
#22
Contributing Member
Very few if any motors die or wear out because of oil filters or oil if oil is changed regularly.
Most die due to neglect or abuse.
07-12-2010, 07:00 AM
#23
Registered User
It probably isn't necessary to run two oil filters, but the trucks that did not come with an oil cooler make it really easy to do... and it can't do any harm.
I'm sure its not worth removing your oil cooler for though.
I'm sure its not worth removing your oil cooler for though.
07-12-2010, 08:19 AM
#24
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Mine was like that when I got it. I will prolly leave it like that because the cooler is A. hard to find and B. expensive.
It's a matter of economics at this point- :flipoff:
07-12-2010, 08:44 AM
#25
Registered User
I understand the theory, just don't know necessarily that it is a beneficial practice.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, theory and practice are different.
In theory, nothing works but we know why.
In practice it works but we don't know why.
When theory and practice come together nothing works and we don't know why.
Great mod I hope it works for u, I see the pros and the cons. But if it works then great
Last edited by CitrusTheDragon; 07-12-2010 at 09:43 AM.
07-12-2010, 08:59 AM
#26
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Running two filters probably makes more sense for someone who runs like a K&N air filter, sees a lot of dirty conditions, has a big, hot motor, and/or runs an oil capable of extended drain intervals. Large amounts of oil, particularly if synthetic, gets expensive. And, if you can stretch the amount of time and efficiency of the oil, it becomes economical. I run two oil filters on both of my 4rnrs because I use long life synthetic, haul and tow a lot, and live in the country where it gets dry and dusty through part of the summer. I use remote Frantz units that have more capacity and a finer micron than the spin ons; a standard 500 sheet roll of toilet paper.(How's that for economical?) And, the return line dumps the oil back on top the valve train through the filler cap. On top of that, I even use a larger capacity spin on for atleast the 22re. I do notice that the oil doesn't get dirty nearly so quickly. It works. Motors are more expensive to service than filters, so why not?
07-12-2010, 09:20 AM
#27
Registered User
I would think that any oil filter puts up some resistance to the flow of oil, and therefore using another filter would slow the flow of oil additionally, which seems to me to be a possible detriment to using two filters.
I understand and share concern about a filter becoming clogged, but I think the best way of preventing that is to avoid at all costs any filter that has less filtering area than the stock toyota 90915-YZZD1 (160 sq inches), and better yet, use a filter with more area like the 90915-YZZD3 (203 sq in). Using a single filter with more area will actually reduce flow restriction rather than increase it, especially if the media is synthetic rather than paper.
ALL aftermarket filters in the stock size have WAY less filter media area than the toyota D1. Most of them are 104 sq in (Wix/NAPA) to 107 sq in (PureONE). If using aftermarket, best to use a larger filter like the one for a 2001 Ford Windstar which is the same diameter but taller.
As far as filtering better, filters actually trap smaller particles after they've been filtering for a while and start to get filled with larger particles. Unfortunately flow goes down at the same time. The best solution I think is to use a filter with synthetic media that has a nice fine mesh but has lots of surface area like the Ford Windstar-sized Purolator PureONE PL20195, height 4.74", which has 213 sq in of filter media area of synthetic blend media. It has the highest efficiency rating of any filter I found. Filters 92.8% of 10 micron particles, and amazingly traps 51.3% of 5 micron particles and 100% at 25 microns. Compare that to the Wix which traps only 50% of 14 micron particles. For all that filtering, the PL20195 flow figures are much higher than for almost all other filters (see this post ). An excellent filter at a reasonable price.
This thread has tons of filter info: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...filter-190242/
.
I understand and share concern about a filter becoming clogged, but I think the best way of preventing that is to avoid at all costs any filter that has less filtering area than the stock toyota 90915-YZZD1 (160 sq inches), and better yet, use a filter with more area like the 90915-YZZD3 (203 sq in). Using a single filter with more area will actually reduce flow restriction rather than increase it, especially if the media is synthetic rather than paper.
ALL aftermarket filters in the stock size have WAY less filter media area than the toyota D1. Most of them are 104 sq in (Wix/NAPA) to 107 sq in (PureONE). If using aftermarket, best to use a larger filter like the one for a 2001 Ford Windstar which is the same diameter but taller.
As far as filtering better, filters actually trap smaller particles after they've been filtering for a while and start to get filled with larger particles. Unfortunately flow goes down at the same time. The best solution I think is to use a filter with synthetic media that has a nice fine mesh but has lots of surface area like the Ford Windstar-sized Purolator PureONE PL20195, height 4.74", which has 213 sq in of filter media area of synthetic blend media. It has the highest efficiency rating of any filter I found. Filters 92.8% of 10 micron particles, and amazingly traps 51.3% of 5 micron particles and 100% at 25 microns. Compare that to the Wix which traps only 50% of 14 micron particles. For all that filtering, the PL20195 flow figures are much higher than for almost all other filters (see this post ). An excellent filter at a reasonable price.
This thread has tons of filter info: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...filter-190242/
.
Last edited by sb5walker; 07-12-2010 at 09:37 AM.
07-12-2010, 10:14 AM
#28
Registered User
I've read about the Purolator. I've done some looking for them, but haven't found them locally, yet. I'm gonna get them next oil change, though.
A friend of mine had suggested Frantz to me. A good friend of his has always used them and has over 600k on his motor. I think it works pretty good.
A friend of mine had suggested Frantz to me. A good friend of his has always used them and has over 600k on his motor. I think it works pretty good.
07-12-2010, 12:13 PM
#30
Registered User
Advanced Auto carries them, and you can get a 2-pack on amazon. They fit the 22re no problem, and fit most 3VZEs. They come close to an engine mount, but on most veezys they don't ever touch it. On a few, they apparently do touch, and I would avoid using them in that case. The toyota 90915-YZZD3 would be my preference on those engines.
07-12-2010, 12:45 PM
#31
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The Amsoil filters appear to have the same specs, 100% at 20um, 98.7% at 15um, and 59.97% at 7um.. so I wonder if its the same media.. Great filters either way.
07-12-2010, 01:23 PM
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07-12-2010, 01:25 PM
#33
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Those are different numbers than I have seen for the PureOne, but go inline with what I have seen.. But I am 99.9% sure that its 100% at 20um, not 25um..
The Amsoil filters appear to have the same specs, 100% at 20um, 98.7% at 15um, and 59.97% at 7um.. so I wonder if its the same media.. Great filters either way.
The Amsoil filters appear to have the same specs, 100% at 20um, 98.7% at 15um, and 59.97% at 7um.. so I wonder if its the same media.. Great filters either way.
But... here's where I got the PureONE specs: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1545484&page=2 (post #1540544)
Last edited by sb5walker; 07-12-2010 at 01:27 PM.
07-12-2010, 03:30 PM
#35
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I feel badly that my post has caused this to go off topic - perhaps Tofer, you could move these posts to their own thread?? I can repost to this thread with the point that is, I think, relevant, which is that two filters might negatively impact oil flow. But filter specs maybe ought to be elsewhere. Apologies.
But... here's where I got the PureONE specs: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1545484&page=2 (post #1540544)
But... here's where I got the PureONE specs: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...1545484&page=2 (post #1540544)
Unless the filters are plugged the you won't effect flow. Most filters only offer a low psi drop across them, say 1-3, when clean. When your talking about a system thats always above 20psi your flow will be fine.
That's another great thing about the advanced media that Amsoil (and I must presume PureOne) uses, tighter filtering but better flow!
Agree... its important info pertaining to the install, and feasibility of it.
07-12-2010, 03:34 PM
#36
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The pureone website says 99.9% at 20um, so maybe they are extrapolating up, but there is no beta ratio for 100%, I think some just round up.. Beta 1000 is 99.9%, or about as good as its gonna get :-)
Unless the filters are plugged the you won't effect flow. Most filters only offer a low psi drop across them, say 1-3, when clean. When your talking about a system thats always above 20psi your flow will be fine.
That's another great thing about the advanced media that Amsoil (and I must presume PureOne) uses, tighter filtering but better flow!
Unless the filters are plugged the you won't effect flow. Most filters only offer a low psi drop across them, say 1-3, when clean. When your talking about a system thats always above 20psi your flow will be fine.
That's another great thing about the advanced media that Amsoil (and I must presume PureOne) uses, tighter filtering but better flow!
Fink
07-12-2010, 03:54 PM
#37
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Unfortunately, the evidence suggests that AMSOIL filters don't have good flow, in fact may have disasterously bad flow. Last year Amsoil, following a bunch of complaints that their EaO filters clogged early and caused the oil pressure warning light to come on in Toyota vehicles, they released two TSBs recommending that their filters not be used in toyotas. They blamed the "bad design" of toyota engines for the problem, saying they produced more particles. However if their bypass valves worked at the proper pressure, the oil light should never come on, even if the filter is totally clogged and is just bypassing:
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...e%20Issues.pdf
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...O%20Toyota.pdf
Info on the bobistheoilguy forum has shown the EaO filters to leave more contaminants behind in the oil than Mobil 1 filters do. Whether this is due to less efficiency or clogged filters that are bypassing, IDK. One factor possibly leading to the problems is that the EaO has a coil spring bypass valve design similar to the Wix, so filtering area in the compact size (the EAO10, I believe) was probably poor, and that combined with the higher efficiency (tighter mesh) probably led to the clogging problems. No excuse for the bypass valve not working, tho. It's possible the taller size EAO34 would work okay, but AMSOIL doesn't recommend it. Anyway, the EAOs are crazy expensive; not worth the risk imo, when the PureONEs are available.
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...e%20Issues.pdf
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...O%20Toyota.pdf
Info on the bobistheoilguy forum has shown the EaO filters to leave more contaminants behind in the oil than Mobil 1 filters do. Whether this is due to less efficiency or clogged filters that are bypassing, IDK. One factor possibly leading to the problems is that the EaO has a coil spring bypass valve design similar to the Wix, so filtering area in the compact size (the EAO10, I believe) was probably poor, and that combined with the higher efficiency (tighter mesh) probably led to the clogging problems. No excuse for the bypass valve not working, tho. It's possible the taller size EAO34 would work okay, but AMSOIL doesn't recommend it. Anyway, the EAOs are crazy expensive; not worth the risk imo, when the PureONEs are available.
07-12-2010, 04:14 PM
#38
My 4'8" Irish grandma always thought if 2 aspirin work so good why not just take 4.
I understand the theory, just don't know necessarily that it is a beneficial practice.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, theory and practice are different.
In theory, nothing works but we know why.
In practice it works but we don't know why.
When theory and practice come together nothing works and we don't know why.
I understand the theory, just don't know necessarily that it is a beneficial practice.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, theory and practice are different.
In theory, nothing works but we know why.
In practice it works but we don't know why.
When theory and practice come together nothing works and we don't know why.
A theory is a hypothesis so well substantiated(by data gathered through the practicing or investigation of which) as to be generally accepted(as truth).
What is a full-flow filter?
A full-flow filter is a device for filtering, removing solid contamination from lubricating oil. Full-flow filtration can be the ultimate in oil filtration in that all oil flowing directly to the bearings must first pass through the full-flow filter. However, because of the cost and size limitations, the full-flow filter is no more than a coarse strainer and must be built to guarantee against restricting the oil supply to the engine. The demands of the engine require that bypass valves be built into the system to ensure an oil supply to the bearings when the filter will not handle the required volume. These bypass valves bleed at 3 p.s.i. and open wide at 9 p.s.i. differential pressure across the filter. These pressures may be frequently exceeded on starting the engine and also during normal operation when the filter becomes restricted with contamination. When this occurs, unfiltered dirty oil bypasses the filtering material inside and flows directly to the bearings. Despite its practical limitations of keeping the oil clean, it does provide the bearings with some protection by removing particles larger than 10 microns in size.
Running two filters isn't something that hasn't been practiced and accepted as safe. Perhaps it is totally overkill for the average joe and his mostly street driven DD. So sue me, as I am such a "practitioner".
But for the trail-only, or "severe duty", rig a dual filter setup may be worth considering. Here's an interesting write-up on that subject.
Last edited by MudHippy; 07-12-2010 at 07:43 PM.
07-13-2010, 05:40 AM
#39
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Unfortunately, the evidence suggests that AMSOIL filters don't have good flow, in fact may have disasterously bad flow. Last year Amsoil, following a bunch of complaints that their EaO filters clogged early and caused the oil pressure warning light to come on in Toyota vehicles, they released two TSBs recommending that their filters not be used in toyotas. They blamed the "bad design" of toyota engines for the problem, saying they produced more particles. However if their bypass valves worked at the proper pressure, the oil light should never come on, even if the filter is totally clogged and is just bypassing:
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...e%20Issues.pdf
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...O%20Toyota.pdf
Info on the bobistheoilguy forum has shown the EaO filters to leave more contaminants behind in the oil than Mobil 1 filters do. Whether this is due to less efficiency or clogged filters that are bypassing, IDK. One factor possibly leading to the problems is that the EaO has a coil spring bypass valve design similar to the Wix, so filtering area in the compact size (the EAO10, I believe) was probably poor, and that combined with the higher efficiency (tighter mesh) probably led to the clogging problems. No excuse for the bypass valve not working, tho. It's possible the taller size EAO34 would work okay, but AMSOIL doesn't recommend it. Anyway, the EAOs are crazy expensive; not worth the risk imo, when the PureONEs are available.
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...e%20Issues.pdf
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techse...O%20Toyota.pdf
Info on the bobistheoilguy forum has shown the EaO filters to leave more contaminants behind in the oil than Mobil 1 filters do. Whether this is due to less efficiency or clogged filters that are bypassing, IDK. One factor possibly leading to the problems is that the EaO has a coil spring bypass valve design similar to the Wix, so filtering area in the compact size (the EAO10, I believe) was probably poor, and that combined with the higher efficiency (tighter mesh) probably led to the clogging problems. No excuse for the bypass valve not working, tho. It's possible the taller size EAO34 would work okay, but AMSOIL doesn't recommend it. Anyway, the EAOs are crazy expensive; not worth the risk imo, when the PureONEs are available.
The design of the media allows for tighter filtration, but more flow than a stock style filter. As far as the bypass operation, no clue. But cold oil is harder to flow and its been a while since I read the press release but I thought it was an issue at startup?
I have been driving rigs with Amsoil as long as I can drive, and have always had great luck. The UOA show's the oil and the filters do their job, and the new media is no exception. Of course I have always ran larger or dual filters, so there is plenty of media for long term use.
PureOne is not a fix, it has the same ratings as the Amsoil, and will plug just as quick, and then bypass. There is no point is filtering great for a while, then not filtering at all; which is what would happen. You don't want a filter in bypass mode, thats too small of a filter or too long of use.
As you can see, the Amsoil filters do just fine.
Sample 2 is my recent sample, and is a different oil than Sample 1. As you can see the rig really likes the current Amsoil SSO 0w-30. Ignore the issues on the additive metals, thats due to changing oils and should be gone by the next UOA. That oil is 14 months old.
07-13-2010, 05:53 AM
#40
In science, a hypothesis is a proposition advanced as possibly true, and consistent with known data(acquired through the practicing of said hypothesis), but requiring further investigation(and/or more practice).
A theory is a hypothesis so well substantiated(by data gathered through the practicing or investigation of which) as to be generally accepted(as truth).
A theory is a hypothesis so well substantiated(by data gathered through the practicing or investigation of which) as to be generally accepted(as truth).
I know what the words mean and how to apply them, I'm an injuneer.
