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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

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Old 11-03-2008, 08:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
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22re rebuild or replace engine (Blown head gasket)

Hi all,
I'm looking for the wisdom of those who have done it before me. I blew a head gasket when the termostat went out and am trying to decide between rebuilding the engine or placing it.

About the truck
'86 1-ton 22re
165K miles.
New radiator this year
New Timing Chain last year
New Water pump Last year.

My preferences are to make the engine last. How many miles can I expect to get on a head gasket replacement? Some threads I have read say it is only about 50K. It is is that low, I'm thinking about replacing the engine. But then I have read replaced engines don't last either. Thoughts, suggestions, experiances?

I've seen plenty of threads on replacing the head gaskets and it looks doable to me. Looks like I just need time, a big table and a obessive compulsive girlfriend to label and bag the parts as they come out. One quick question, is it better to pull the engine or replace the head gasket in the body?

Thanks for all your help.
Christopher
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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one ton is a rare truck, worth fixing if its in good shape. 100k on a head i did years ago, ran great til the frame let go. If the oils not all milky and it didnt burn alot of oil, id just do the head in vehicle.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I've done both. I replaced the blown head gasket on my old motor and then the bottom end went a year later so I dropped in a replacement longblock. If you have the cash I would go with the longblock just because to me it seemed about the same amount of work as doing a head gasket. Well actually I had the longblock in quicker than it took me to do the head gasket replacement, but that is because I knew a lot more about the motor a year later. If you don't have the cash, just replace the head gasket, but you don't need to pull the motor to do it.

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Old 11-03-2008, 08:53 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I just did a head gasket on my buddies 93 22re, it's very doable. It just takes time. But once we had it back together, we found the bottom end needs work. He drove it WAY to far (like 60+ miles) after it blew, w/o knowing it was blown! So we are getting ready to pull it and do the bottom now.

If you have the time and facility, pull it and check out the bottom while your in there. If not, I'd just do it in the truck. That's how we did his. It's awkward, but doable.

Although, if you do decide to pull it, you can check your clutch and pilot and throwout bearings while your in there already.

Good Luck! Keep us posted on how it goes and what you find. If I get his pulled before you get going on your's I'll let you know how it goes!
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Thank you Grant
Just a couple follow up questions.

How long did it take for you to replace the head gasket?

How do I check to see if the bottom need to be redone? There is a bit of milky resedue on the oil cap, but nothing on the dipstick?

Is checking the clutch hard, that is one area I don't feel comfortable, mostly out of inexperiance?
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:06 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I suggest pulling the engine to check everything. Basically you check all the bearing and inspect everything for wear...and you don't want odd objects in your oil pan. lol. Good luck!
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Old 11-03-2008, 02:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Sounds like you need a new head at least, if the lower is in good enough shape. Did it ever overheat recently?
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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It did overheat recently. I drove about another 10 miles on it after it went bad to get it home. How do you tell if the bottom needs to be redone, and what is involved in redoing the bottom?

I'm looking at putting a new head on, if the old one is warpped
http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebGe...B-E9B25F62A2A5

Thanks for your help.

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Old 11-03-2008, 03:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i say try engnbildr.com there way better you might have to google the name as i dont know how to spell it there cheaper and better i have there cam and yes i have a blown hg as well but its been over 200 miles since it went so im just going to wait till summer if i can and swap it out for a 7mte motor in mine
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by just a 22re View Post
i say try engnbildr.com there way better you might have to google the name as i dont know how to spell it there cheaper and better i have there cam and yes i have a blown hg as well but its been over 200 miles since it went so im just going to wait till summer if i can and swap it out for a 7mte motor in mine
Yes you are talking about this
http://www.engnbldr.com/toyota_heads.htm

I hear good things about both. Any other voices want to speak up?
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Question Head Gasket Replace: Timing chain replaced last year, should I do it again now?

Everybody here has been very helpful. Thank you.
It feels nice I have already been able to give back on some other posts.

Quick quesiton:
I'm about to change out my head gasket and am wondering if I should change the timing chain again while I'm in there. I had the timing changed changed a year ago. I would think it wouldn't be necessary but I'm new to all this. I'm ordering parts from engnbldr.com and only want to order once to avoid multipul shipping charges.

I'm also thinking of redoing the piston rings while I have the engine out. Is there any reason not to if I'm already that far in?

Thanks
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The timing chain should be fine, inspect the nylon guides though, see if they are wearing much. If you are going that far into rings & such, you might as well rebuild the whole thing. The new head might raise compression enough that you start having issues with the bottom end, and you might as well have it rebuilt. Just my .02


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Old 11-04-2008, 04:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PDX_1ton View Post
Thank you Grant
Just a couple follow up questions.

How long did it take for you to replace the head gasket?

How do I check to see if the bottom need to be redone? There is a bit of milky resedue on the oil cap, but nothing on the dipstick?

Is checking the clutch hard, that is one area I don't feel comfortable, mostly out of inexperiance?
Unfortunately do to location, timing, parts and scheduling. It ended up taking us just over a week to do it.
But you have to factor in that we had never done one on this model engine, I was also trying to be at work and in school, we had to get several different parts, including a couple order parts and the truck was 20 miles from anywhere.

With all the parts, tools and some experience, we could have done it much quicker. This was a '93 4x4 so we also ended up pulling the front diff to get the oil pan off (what was left of the timing chain guides was sitting in the bottom of the pan).

I expect it to take us a few days to get it pulled, torn down, put back together and reinstalled this next go around. But we are going to do it at my work, so there will be more tools, better working conditions and closer parts dealers. lol

We didn't know the bottom end needed anything until we put it back together and had a weird noise at higher RPM. The guy at Toyota told us it is Rod Knock. Because something didn't get properly lubricated while the fluids were mixed. I'm afraid we will end up doing all the bottom bearings. We might also do the rings while we are in there. But we'll see. I will definitely push for it, but he is working on a budget.

Have you started tearing your engine down yet? Did you say you decided to pull the engine to do the work?
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm of the mindset of learn by doing. So taking things apart and fixing them is the way I operate, for the most part. Sometimes 'time' is important so I will take the quicker route if necessary, but usually don't.

So if you're in a hurry, a longblock assembly is the only way to go. If the block is available to you, you can have the old one out and the new one in within a day... maybe a few if you can't spend all day on it.

If you already have the head out, you can't check compression so no real way of knowing whether or not the rings are worn. In my opinion, it would be prudent to replace them, particularly if the engine has more than 100k miles on it.

Then... while you have the pistons out to do the rings (don't forget to hone the cylinders), plastigauge on the rod bearings (at least) will give you a good indication of the condition of the rod bearings and whether they need replaced as well. If they need replaced, though not mandatory, replacing the crank bearings is something to be considered. If the oil pressure was good before the head gasket let go, then I'd probably skip the crank bearings. I would still check the rod bearings if you're doing the rings though.

As for the timing chain... that's a judgement call. Yeah it was replaced a year ago, but how many miles is that? Me being the way I am would probably replace it, for peace-of-mind's sake, and keep the relatively new chain as a backup for 'just in case'. I mean, if I can afford it now, do it, then I have a back-up I won't have to pay for. Get my drift?
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Old 11-04-2008, 04:19 PM
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