22re Plastic Guides VS Metal Backed Guides
08-24-2010, 09:22 AM
#41
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Seems like most people recommend Ted's kits. I would rather not to have worry about component failure. If a steel guide were to break I would end up with some bent valves, if the chain wore through the cover I would need new bearings and possibly a total rebuild.
I am not sure who the painter is, but Tool uses it their album artwork. peace
I am not sure who the painter is, but Tool uses it their album artwork. peace
On the other hand, with plastic (OEM) guides, unless you're an oblivious individual, water jacket breach can be easily avoided. You should know the timing assembly has failed well before this happens by engine sounds.
I'm just saying there's no guarantees either way. But, odds are always in your favor if you remain aware and the fact that the 22re is still a rugged motor. When mine failed, I had no bottom end damage. But, the oil rings were leaking (from carbon build up), so I refreshed the bottom bearings, honed the cylinders, and replaced the rings. Wasn't hard nor terribly expensive. To be honest, half my time was spent repainting. That was by far the most tedious part. Next time, I won't even bother with that. Just clean and reassemble.
BTW, Tool does like to use Alex Grey art in their album art. So, probably is.
08-24-2010, 10:04 AM
#42
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That makes sense. What happens when the plastic wears away from the steel guide? I would guess hard steel fragments in the system. This will be my first timing chain repair on a 22re. my main concern is getting the crankshaft pulley bolt off.
"To be honest, half my time was spent repainting." LOL
"To be honest, half my time was spent repainting." LOL
08-24-2010, 11:21 AM
#43
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No plastic on a metal guide, rubber. It's a rubber pad glued to it.
And I guarantee, in a fight between a metal guide and a chain, the chain will lose.
Ppl, just change yer dang chains (and guides AND tensioners!) when you're supposed to!
Quit putting the "lazy" in "american" and just do it!
60 or 80k, I can't remember. You could prolly do it at 100. Whatever it is! It's a small price to pay for another 80-100k trouble free miles from the timing chain.
Your next failure, I assure you will not be timing chain related!
And I guarantee, in a fight between a metal guide and a chain, the chain will lose.
Ppl, just change yer dang chains (and guides AND tensioners!) when you're supposed to!
Quit putting the "lazy" in "american" and just do it!
60 or 80k, I can't remember. You could prolly do it at 100. Whatever it is! It's a small price to pay for another 80-100k trouble free miles from the timing chain.
Your next failure, I assure you will not be timing chain related!
Last edited by tried4x2signN; 08-24-2010 at 11:25 AM.
08-24-2010, 12:49 PM
#44
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No plastic on a metal guide, rubber. It's a rubber pad glued to it.
And I guarantee, in a fight between a metal guide and a chain, the chain will lose.
Ppl, just change yer dang chains (and guides AND tensioners!) when you're supposed to!
Quit putting the "lazy" in "american" and just do it!
60 or 80k, I can't remember. You could prolly do it at 100. Whatever it is! It's a small price to pay for another 80-100k trouble free miles from the timing chain.
Your next failure, I assure you will not be timing chain related!
And I guarantee, in a fight between a metal guide and a chain, the chain will lose.
Ppl, just change yer dang chains (and guides AND tensioners!) when you're supposed to!
Quit putting the "lazy" in "american" and just do it!
60 or 80k, I can't remember. You could prolly do it at 100. Whatever it is! It's a small price to pay for another 80-100k trouble free miles from the timing chain.
Your next failure, I assure you will not be timing chain related!
...what he said
. I bought the steel kit from http://www.engnbldr.com/ changed chain and tensioner and feel much better about the next 80k miles for my 22re. "Piece of mind" is made from steel not plastic. Just my $0.02
Last edited by tumor21; 08-24-2010 at 12:51 PM.
08-24-2010, 01:23 PM
#45
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That makes sense. What happens when the plastic wears away from the steel guide? I would guess hard steel fragments in the system. This will be my first timing chain repair on a 22re. my main concern is getting the crankshaft pulley bolt off.
"To be honest, half my time was spent repainting." LOL
"To be honest, half my time was spent repainting." LOL
Things to be aware of with either guide material are excessive rattling at idle (not from valves) and even an elevated/racing idle. But, it's like I said before, if one were to actually keep eye on the valve adjustment at or even close to the regular interval, you can check the condition of the timing chain, etc. atleast a couple of times before the estimated chain interval.
08-24-2010, 01:51 PM
#48
All guides fail its a fact. Would you rather have plastic shavings churning in the engine or metal.
Thats your call.
The plastic makes it quiter, safer and servers a a reminder to ppl who have 100-200k on their timing chains that its time to change it.
Timing chains will "stretch" due to the joints and pins and connecting points of the chain "wearing" which is the slight stretch that lets the chain slack a bit and start to "flap" around in a circle. The chain will always be much harder than the guides thus guides vs chain=Chain ftw. If you had a guide harder than the chain it would ruin the chain and possibley break it prematurely.
Why do you think 90% of 22r's have this set up.
Toyotas not stupid especailly in those days when yotas were high on quality. And strived to do so, to compete in the market.
Thats your call.
The plastic makes it quiter, safer and servers a a reminder to ppl who have 100-200k on their timing chains that its time to change it.
Timing chains will "stretch" due to the joints and pins and connecting points of the chain "wearing" which is the slight stretch that lets the chain slack a bit and start to "flap" around in a circle. The chain will always be much harder than the guides thus guides vs chain=Chain ftw. If you had a guide harder than the chain it would ruin the chain and possibley break it prematurely.
Why do you think 90% of 22r's have this set up.
Toyotas not stupid especailly in those days when yotas were high on quality. And strived to do so, to compete in the market.
08-24-2010, 03:31 PM
#53
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Teds kit is great minus two things.
Throw away the tensioner and Rock headgasket and get factory of both.
You'll be thankful in the long run, and its not that expensive for piece of mind.
Throw away the tensioner and Rock headgasket and get factory of both.
You'll be thankful in the long run, and its not that expensive for piece of mind.
08-24-2010, 03:32 PM
#54
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It's my understanding, that the 1Fz and the 3Rz maybe even 2Rz are lifetime chains.
Well I thought it was,,,, 2 chains, 2 tensioners... But will I give up my 22R for one? HECK NO, fool! :Mr.T:
It's just a fact of life for the 22R. Plus, you want it that way. It's a single chain. You changing out the chain & tensioner b/c it won't last 100k is a safety feature.
B/c chain breaks, valves bend.
Last edited by tried4x2signN; 08-24-2010 at 03:46 PM.
09-12-2010, 12:59 PM
#56
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Well, I got the FEK from Ted and installed it, started the truck then a river
of oil was pouring from the pump. Tore it back down and the O ring was
crimped. Also the Harbor Freight torque wrench decided to take a ˟˟˟˟˟. I
torqued the tensioner to hand tight then a quarter turn with the wrench,
should be close 13 pounds. Anyways it was pretty straight forward, the truck
runs great, thanks Yota Tech for the information!
of oil was pouring from the pump.
Tore it back down and the O ring was crimped. Also the Harbor Freight torque wrench decided to take a ˟˟˟˟˟. I
torqued the tensioner to hand tight then a quarter turn with the wrench,
should be close 13 pounds. Anyways it was pretty straight forward, the truck
runs great, thanks Yota Tech for the information!
09-12-2010, 01:11 PM
#57
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water and oil pump. After 200,000 miles everything was factory, I do not think
the valve cover was ever cracked open. BTW the engine is quiet.
09-21-2010, 01:50 PM
#59
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Yep. Just depends on what the aftermarket is. But, much of it is junk compared to OEM. Think about it. It's all mass produced and the guidelines aren't as tightly adhered to. What do they care if they're selling and making money?
09-21-2010, 02:11 PM
#60
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OEM is best, I got away with 200K miles before replacing my timing set.
Granted the drivers side guide was destroyed and the chain left an 1/8th inch
groove in the cover, but the tensioner was still operating as smoothly as the
one that came in the kit
My question is; What is everybody's mileage on the ENGBLDR kits? They
seem to be quality, just interested in how many miles you guys got out of
them.
Granted the drivers side guide was destroyed and the chain left an 1/8th inch
groove in the cover, but the tensioner was still operating as smoothly as the
one that came in the kit
My question is; What is everybody's mileage on the ENGBLDR kits? They
seem to be quality, just interested in how many miles you guys got out of
them.
