vonscorpio

My vehicle: 1989 Toyota pickup DLX 2WD 22RE (EFI), 210K miles.

The problem: driving in north Seattle residential stop-and-go streets, minding my own business, on a cold Saturday evening. Gas was around 1/4 tank (ARCO premium...) Waiting for a red light to change the engine sputters for a moment, but kicks back in before I could react. Then suddenly dies and all the idiot-lights come on.

Symptoms: engine turns over freely, but no sputter at all from the exhaust. No smell of burnt fuel either. When I cranked it long enough I could smell a weak scent of unburnt fuel, but I couldn’t pinpoint if it was from the exhaust or from the engine.

What I’ve tried so far: tried disconnecting and reconnecting the air flow thingy (before mass air-flow sensor era, not sure the exact name) and as a result heard a fuse blow in the engine compartment. EFI 15A fuse was toast, so swapped it for the one Toyota so lovingly provided as a spare.
Read on forums that the O2 sensor wires sometimes short and cause similar symptoms so unwrapped the looming and inspected the wires for shorts. Everything seemed in order and in remarkably good shape for its age. Inspected fuse box for shorted wires or other burnt fuses. The diagnostics plug is coated in what I assume to be some kind of grease, but no visible shorts. Pulled a spark plug and grounded it out to check for a spark. It sparked away, but I noted the plug was quite fouled for only 11k miles. (?)
Had the vehicle towed home... sad day.
Swapped the EFI relay for the assumed functioning matching relay from the inside fusebox. Heard one cylinder fire once. I also noted the familiar “clunk” from the guest seat side behind the glove box which I assume is a sign that the fuel pump relay is still plugging away.
Otherwise engine turned over freely.

I am obviously in need of some expert advice.
If I overlooked an important detail please ask away.

My vehicle’s history: I got the truck in July of 2011 and have put 11k miles on it. Prior to my ownership it had very minimal maintenance performed (oil changes... yeah that’s about it)
I replaced distributor cap and rotor, wires and spark plugs when I got the vehicle. (11k miles ago). Passed Oregon State DEQ with flying colors.
Oil changes regularly. Dropped the transmission pan and cleaned out the sludge, and replaced the “filter”. (Transmission fluid was darker then the oil!)
Replaced valve cover gasket and grommets to stop the oil from blowing out on the top of the engine. Last summer the original alternator finally gave up and I, with great effort and many angry words, replaced it with a rebuilt one from Baxter’s.

I am new to this site so forgive any blunders I make as this is my first post.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

If you have spark it most likely can be only one other thing unless the timing chain broke or jumped time but that most often makes a racket or binds the engine.

i would look towards the fuel system.

Did you run out of gas??

Did the fuel pump quit?/

Have you listed for the fuel pump running

Almost sounds like you just ran out of gas from being to low or the pump failing for some reason

vonscorpio

Thanks for the response. My first thought was I had run out of gas, in spite of the gauge reading. Or perhaps bad gas or moisture resulting from the cold weather and recent ice storm. I walked to a gas station that night, purchased an over-priced 2 gallon tank and bummed a ride back to my truck. I've never run a vehicle out of gas before, so I'm not sure if it would need to prime?
The distributor rotor still turns when the engine cranks and I believe that indicates the timing chain is intact?

I have not listened for the pump. I will try that tomorrow after work and post the results. Any advice on an easy way to hear it?

StewsRunner

iTrader: (1)

Jumper the fuel pump, not sure how to on a 22re though, turn the key to ON and stand by the gas tank. You should hear a buzzing sound.

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22R4EVR

you could have a bad fuel filter (clogged) or no fuel pressure at all which sounds more likely, easy way to check is to disconnect the cold start injector fuel line that goes to the intake plenum and crank the engine and see if fuel spits out, then go from there, (make sure you have gas in the tank when attempting to diagnose, I kid you not !

vonscorpio

Fuel filter is most likely the original factory one and on my list to be replaced, just inconveniently located as I'm sure you all know.
Tank reads just short of half (regardless of gauge I put 2 gallons in it).
I'll research the jumper terminals to see what I need to do for that.
Any advice for making disconnecting that cold start injector easier to do in the dark, 30 degree weather?

22R4EVR

disconnect directly the whole injector from the plenum and place it in a bottle and crank the engine. there should be two 10mm bolts going through the plenum remove those and you should be set to test. hopefully your cold start injector is working. if its not then that could also be an indication why its having a hard time starting as it needs that extra fuel to crank it in cold days

22R4EVR

I had to jump my cold start injector from the ignition as it used to not function and it was giving me a hell of a hard time starting when it was around 45 degrees cant imagine starting it around 30 without the injector working

vonscorpio

Sadly I was delayed getting home from work so the test will have to wait a night.
I appreciate all the advice!
That truck has had a clean history of starting regardless of weather. The ONLY issue it has starting prior to that night it died was the occasional (not weather related) key turns, I hear the click behind the dashboard and have to hold/wiggle the key in the start position and after a 5-10 second delay (I had always attributed the delay to a very worn tumbler. Perhaps I was wrong?) it would turn then over and fire right up.

StewsRunner

iTrader: (1)

So does it actually catch after a few cranking seconds? When it does, does it sputter or idle well? Or does it not start at all? Sorry if you've already said this, I didn't catch it. . .

vonscorpio

I was a bit ambiguous with my stories:
Issue I am petitioning for a solution is the starter and solenoid, spark (and gas in the tank, never ran dry) are working fine, I can hear/feel the engine turning over but no fire.

Only past issue the truck has had with starting was what I assume is caused by a worn tumbler.

vonscorpio

So tests are in. I pulled an injector (not sure which one it was but it was the only one I could find. Top of throttle body right under the "I" on the molded "EFI")
And cranked the engine. Made a nice spray... And mess. Good thing I don't smoke.
I put the injector back in place and cranked that engine for as long as I could without causing the neighbors to call me in for abuse of my pickup. Exhaust reeked of fresh, unburnt fuel.
I am going to still recruit my roommate to listen for the pump but I'm assuming by the spray of fuel I saw that the pump is working well enough.
Now I am at a loss for what is wrong.
Shouldn't the tiniest spark cause the engine to fire at least one cylinder?
Could excess moisture stall an engine that was running for 45+ minutes before?

StewsRunner

iTrader: (1)

Maybe too much fuel? My fuel pressure regulator was bad and caused a leak in the intake causing it to flood. I doubt it's your problem but its a very, very easy check, once you get your truck running that is… I have no clue where it is on the 22re but when you find it, pull the hose off and leave it off for maybe 5 min and see if fuel starts to drip out. Do not pull the wrong hose off.

Like I said, I doubt that is your problem, just a very quick check to eliminate things.

Have you looked into the engine coolant temp sensor or sender?

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B-Fake

If you're getting fuel you're either not getting air or spark. Replace the ignition components just to eliminate that, it's cheap and besides, if you haven't replaced them there's no telling how old they are. Try to start it with the air box open, if the filter is plugged up with crap it can't breathe. Also check the connection on the plug on the AFM, if it's loose or has a bad connection the motor won't run. Maybe check to make sure the ECU connections are ok too while you're at it. And this may be a long shot but check your valve lash, if the valves aren't opening it can't breathe either. It would probably be extremely noisy if it got to that point, but it's always a good thing to do anyways when you do any other maintainence.

vonscorpio

Where is the engine coolant temp sensor located? And is there a simple way to test it?
At this point I'm going to replace all the ignition wires, cap and rotor and get some new plugs, even if they have less then 12k miles on them.
I'll double check the AFM connection. It died BEFORE I monkied with it but always worth a look. Would a bad AFM cause the engine to not start? Or just run rough?
Can someone suggest a list and location of problematic grounds/connections/sensors that I should check?
I have confirmed gas, which I had previously thought absent.
The air filter is in need of replacement, which I will do for good measure, but is functional.
That leaves the spark...

toyoter2

had pretty much the same problem... many "experts" were advising to change fuel pump or/and fuel filter. When I finally checked the air filter, I realized my neglect. I'm not having the problem anymore. But still holding on to fuel filter in case I will need it in the future.

B-Fake

The temperature sending unit to the ECU i believe is located under the throttle body next to the cold start time switch. If it matters at all, the other temp sensor that goes to the gauge in the instrument cluster is on the lower intake manifold in between ports 2 and 3. I think the way to test either one is to just check the resistance with a multimeter. I don't know off the top of my head what they are supposed to be but the FSM will have the values.

A faulty AFM might cause it to not start, but I would think it would probably just make it run poorly. It works the same way the TPS does with a potentiometer and if the wipers are corroded it will give the ECU bad info. I do know personally if it's unplugged it can start but won't run. I forgot to plug it back in after I was screwing around with the air box .

Here's where all of the ground points are
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-guide-194413/

Once you replace the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and maybe coil you can eliminate spark from the list and it sounds like you've got fuel and will have air so it should run. If it doesn't I think it's beyond my knowledge, I'm only good with the mechanical stuff, but someone here will be able to diagnose it.

vonscorpio

Thanks for all the great advice!
Here's my update: I just replaced all my spark plugs, wires, and coil. I picked up a new cap and rotor but they were identical to the ones in the truck and it didn't seem to need to be swapped.
Engine almost started (fired a cylinder or two) then back to square one.
I have just pulled out the ECU and am about to open it up and check for obviously burnt components. Any typical problem areas that could potentially cause my symptoms?

Almost forgot... I tried without the air cleaner in place, and checked for any major obstructions. It's getting air.

vonscorpio

Tried using a can of starter fluid. Same results. So spark plug only works when it's not in the engine?

Is that even possible?

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

Yeah it is possible. If the ground is dirty, frayed or loose, it needs cleaned, replaced, and tightened. It's #3 in the post B-Fake posted for you.

Cheap steel spark plugs (Autolite) could also have rusted up your plug sockets. In which case they'll need cleaned, and it's best not to do so with the head on the block.

Another thing, cheap distributor caps use aluminium. Aluminium-Oxide is clear. You can't tell they are bad by looking you need to do the resistance check.

And finally, if you're cranking for more than a second or two your going to get the plugs wet (eg flood it) and they can't produce spark.