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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

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Old 02-11-2010, 11:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy 1987 22RE won't start after distributor adjustment and TPS check...help

Hello. I've been reading everything I could to help resolve this problem with a 1987 4runner 22re.

The truck was running fine during a recent smog check. No adjustments were made other than changing the O2 sensor, spark plugs, and spark plug wires. One of the sparkplug wires appeared to be damaged (the connector in one of the boots was curled over like it was clamped, I had to spread open the connector to fit on the spark plug ) during the smog check. Since it ran okay for the smog check, I didn't change it. But then, about a week later, the truck would not start.

I changed the spark plug wires and then it started okay. Drove it around and noticed some misfiring and felt like it would die. During idling, after about a couple of minutes, it would shut off.

Wonder if the damaged spark plug wire would cause the timing to be off?

So, I adjusted the timing with a timing light. Set it to the 5 BTDC with the TE E1 terminals jumped. It appeared to be running okay, but during idling it appeared to be misfiring. There were some codes being thrown such as the following:

2 4 6 7 11 (Mainly ECU or Ignition related.)

So, I thought I needed to clear the ECU of the codes, so I pulled the 15AMP fuse for the ECU for approx a minute or so. (per one of the DIY guides). I plug it back in and the truck would not start, it would sound like it would turn over, but did not quite catch and run.

I removed the negative battery cable for a couple of minutes. Put it back on and the truck started. Again, the timing seemed off.

So, I shut off the engine, turned the crankshaft clockwise twice until I lined up the timing mark to 5 BTDC, I removed the distributor and put it back per the FSM. I started up the car and adjusted the timing to 5 BTDC with the TE E1 jumped. I noticed that now the timing mark was not steady as it was before, the timing mark would generally be near the 5 BTDC but it would jump forward and back a couple of degrees. What's happening here?

Thinking it's the TPS, I unplug it and check it with my multimeter and the specs appear to be right. I plug it back in. I started it up and it idled for about 20 minutes before I shut it off, thinking it was okay.

The next cold morning (approx 50 degrees) and now the truck won't turn over.

I unplugged the ECU fuse, waited and replaced it. It wouldn't start.

I removed the battery cable, waited and replaced it. It wouldn't start.

The truck sounds like it wanted to start but just doesn't want to turn over. So, now that's where I am at with this truck. I even jumped the battery, but still the same symptom.

The codes are these if I can remember 2,4,6,7,11. I'll post when I can get to the truck--it's another place.

My concerns are:
1) Did removing the distributor and setting the timing cause any permanent damage?
2) Is this a simple fix? I can't seem to get anything to work.
3) What else do I need to do, check?

I would appreciate any and all help. Thank you in advance.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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well i know code 24 is the air intake temp signal so have you checked the VAFM?
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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do not set initial timing to 5 degrees BTDC. Initial timing is always set to zero. Then, with the check connector shorted, the engine should slow down and THEN you set it to 5 BTDC!
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Hmmm, dunno. Ask the oem Nazi DC.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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So, the incorrect initial timing is what's causing the non-start? (Sorry, I only started tinkering with a timing light with this truck. So, most likely, when I thought I was doing the right thing, I was wrong.)

I will try that tomorrow morning and report back.

Do I rotate the crank two revolutions, remove the distributor, reinsert and then set it to 0 BTDC without the jumper. Then when the engine is going, jump it, and set it to 5 BTDC.

Also,in the FSM, on the ignition timing page, I read that it needed to be set at 10BTDC but then below it it read something like Jump E1 TE1 and set it to 5 BTDC. (That confused me.)

Interpretation please.

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Old 02-13-2010, 06:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You need to start again by dead timing the engine to make sure the distributor is installed correctly first, if the dist has been out of motor and motor spun over. Remove #1 spark plug, get someone to crank key. put finger on hole and tap/crank over untill you feel the air rushing out hole. STOP. Rotate motor by hand clockwise from front to TDC or 0. Install distributor with rotor pointing at #1 terminal on cap. Now distributor is dead timed. Other problems/miss is something else. Cap/rotor/wires/plugs/injector/dead hole. P/S use terms "won't CRANK over" when you turn the key and nothing happens. "Or CRANKS, but won't start." We're not there.
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If the timing mark is jumping around even when the jumper is inserted, one (or more) of three things are possible causes: TPS is not adjusted properly resulting in the IDL signal not being sent to the ECU; the jumper is not making good contact in the diagnostic connector and the ECU is not entering the proper mode- the engine idle speed should noticibly change when the jumper is inserted and the check engine light should illuminate; or the timing chain is slapping around and this could be a broken guide, bad tensioner or worn chain.
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Bump for a solution!

I didn't know that about setting timing - like the OP, I thought you always shorted the connectors, and then set to 5 degrees. I need to look more into this, as I just did my timing chain and took out the dizzy. Seems to run fine though...
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If you have the engine set to TDC on compression stroke, and install the distributor with the rotor pointing straight up, the rotor will rotate CCW and end up pointing at #1 cylinder's position on the cap. This should be about 0 degrees for timing and is generally close enough for our purposes, as long as there's room for adjusting the distributor- i.e. the distributor is about mid-way through it's adjustment and is not up against the lock-down bolt.

Start the engine, adjust idle to spec, insert the jumper and set to 5, re-set idle, recheck timing, repeating until idle and timing are at spec, remove jumper.
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Last edited by abecedarian; 02-14-2010 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DeathCougar View Post
do not set initial timing to 5 degrees BTDC. Initial timing is always set to zero. Then, with the check connector shorted, the engine should slow down and THEN you set it to 5 BTDC!
DeathCougar, I was going with what the FSM said:

The blue font is specifically for the 22R. So I ignored those.

Since I have the 22RE, I set the crankshaft pulley initially to 5 degrees BTDC. I re-inserted the distributor, it rotated to the proper position. I cranked the ignition and it started fine.

What confused me was the Adjust Ignition Timing. In (c) I have to turn the distributor until it shows 12 degrees. Then I had to check the ignition timing (isn't that what I just did?) with the T terminal shorted (TE1 and E1 shorted with a paperclip--I've read this elsewhere, but if the FSM is referring to something else then it's not very clear.)

I've read elsewhere to set the ignition timing to 10 degrees BTDC with the terminal shorted. (wiki.answers.com How do you check timing on a 1987 4runner? I don't know where that person got the 10 degree BTDC for the 1987 4runner. I don't know if that applies to the 22R or the 22R-E since the FSM does not have the 10 degree BTDC spec anywhere relating to ignition timing.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ignition System - Distributor IG-10

DISTRIBUTOR
REMOVAL OF DISTRIBUTOR

1. DISCONNECT (VACUUM HOSES (FOR 22R)), HIGH TENSION CORDS AND WIRING CONNECTOR
2. REMOVE TWO SCREWS AND PULL OFF DISTRIBUTOR CAP
3. REMOVE HOLD-DOWN BOLT (12MM) AND PULL OUT DISTRIBUTOR


[SIZE=4]INSTALLATION OF DISTRIBUTOR
[SIZE=2]1. INSTALL DISTRIBUTOR AND SET TIMING
(a) Turn the crankshaft pulley until the timing mark is aligned with 0 degree TDC (22R) and 5 degrees BTDC (22R-E) mark.
NOTE: Check that the rocker arms on the No. 1 cylinder are loose. If not, turn the crankshaft one full turn.
(b) Temporarily install the rotor.
(c) Begin insertion of the distributor with the rotor pointing upward and the distributor mounting hole approximately at center position of the bolt hole.
(d) When fully installed, the rotor will rotate to the position shown.
(e) Align the rotor tooth with the pickup coil projection.
(f) Coat the distributor set bolt with sealer [COLOR=Red](threadlocker?)[COLOR=Black] and install the bolt. Torque the bolt. Torque: 16ft-lb or 22 N-m
(g) Install the rotor and distributor cap with wires.

2. INSTALL THE FOLLOWING PARTS:
(a) Vacuum hoses (for 22R)
(b) Wiring connector

3. ADJUST IGNITION TIMING
(a) Connect a timing light to the engine.
(b) Start the engine and run it at idle.
(c) Using a timing light, slowly turn the distributor until the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley is aligned with the 12 degree mark. Tighten the distributor bolt.
(d) Recheck the ignition timing.

[B]Ignition timing: 22R 0 degree TDC (Max. 950 rpm) (w/vacuum advance cut)
22R-E 5 degrees BTDC at idle (short terminal "T")

Last edited by 22RE-1987; 02-14-2010 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
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well i know code 24 is the air intake temp signal so have you checked the VAFM?
I haven't checked the VAFM yet. I will as soon as the engine starts up okay.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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...
What confused me was the Adjust Ignition Timing.
...
May I suggest you stop over-thinking things. Setting the timing on these engines is not difficult by any means of measure.
Yes, ideally, you want the timing at 0 before you start adjusting things but if the engine is assembled properly, the distributor and rotor will both be within tolerances to get the engine started and allow you to set the idle and timing with little problem.

The important things are that the engine is at TDC for #1 cylinder on the compression stroke (you can verify that by checking that both rocker arms on the intake and exhaust valves for that cylinder are "loose") and that after inserting the distributor into the head, the rotor is pointing approximately at where the #1 cylinder spark plug wire would be on the distributor cap. There is no real, definitive "need" to verify timing is at 0 before adjusting things, just that there is room to adjust the distributor to where you need it to be, which should be around 5 BTDC with the jumper in the diagnostic connector.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You need to start again by dead timing the engine to make sure the distributor is installed correctly first, if the dist has been out of motor and motor spun over. Remove #1 spark plug, get someone to crank key. put finger on hole and tap/crank over untill you feel the air rushing out hole. STOP. Rotate motor by hand clockwise from front to TDC or 0. Install distributor with rotor pointing at #1 terminal on cap. Now distributor is dead timed. Other problems/miss is something else. Cap/rotor/wires/plugs/injector/dead hole. P/S use terms "won't CRANK over" when you turn the key and nothing happens. "Or CRANKS, but won't start." We're not there.
I just tried your suggestion, but I think I'm probably going to be way off. I felt the air rushing out and I had my assistant cut it right when I felt air rushing out, but I think the piston might have made it's way down by the time he shut it off.

Is there another way to tell that the rocker arms are loose and the #1 piston is at the top? (i.e., easier?) Like looking into the sparkplug hole? Or is turning the crankshaft pulley twice in a clockwise manner to the timing mark sufficient?
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by abecedarian View Post
May I suggest you stop over-thinking things. Setting the timing on these engines is not difficult by any means of measure.
Yes, ideally, you want the timing at 0 before you start adjusting things but if the engine is assembled properly, the distributor and rotor will both be within tolerances to get the engine started and allow you to set the idle and timing with little problem.

The important things are that the engine is at TDC for #1 cylinder on the compression stroke (you can verify that by checking that both rocker arms on the intake and exhaust valves for that cylinder are "loose") and that after inserting the distributor into the head, the rotor is pointing approximately at where the #1 cylinder spark plug wire would be on the distributor cap. There is no real, definitive "need" to verify timing is at 0 before adjusting things, just that there is room to adjust the distributor to where you need it to be, which should be around 5 BTDC with the jumper in the diagnostic connector.
abecedarian, having never done this timing before on any engine, I'm bound to make mistakes, but thank you for the guidance.

I finally went ahead and took off the valve cover to really check the status of the rocker arms. (I'll be putting up pictures on what I did.) The FSM really glossed over on how to get to the rocker arms.

After about 10 minutes trying to remove the valve cover, I finally saw what everyone and the FSM was talking about.

I rotated the crankshaft pulley to the 0 degree TDC timing mark AND made sure the CAMSHAFT PULLEY was also lined up with it's mark and the master chain link. (More on this later...) The intake and exhaust rocker arms were "loose", but I was expecting some major play, but loose in this regard was like .30mm or less of movement and when they did move it was more like a click. The camshaft lobes were rotated on their sides like a sideways egg. (Now I know)

I reinstalled the distributor and it rotated to the proper position.

I reinstalled the valve cover and started up the engine. It cranked up but wouldn't start. Finally, after several tries, the truck would idle horribly. The timing mark was all over the place--it jumped erratically past 0 degree TDC to beyond 12 degrees BTDC. Once it stayed idling for awhile, I hooked up the timing light and adjusted the timing until it showed 12 degrees BTDC.

I then jumped the TE1 and E1 terminals and then adjusted the timing to 5 degrees BTDC.

The idling finally stabilized enough where I could shut off the engine and restart it. I drove it around for approximately a 6 miles.

SUCCESS! Thanks to everyone for getting me that far. I totally appreciate it.

I have another problem that I realized after I took off the valve cover and may have become evident during the test drive. Should I start a new thread or continue with this one?
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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nicely done

Last edited by 5.04runner; 02-16-2010 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:30 AM
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