http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp...3&nav=6uy5aHLq

Cyrogenicly freezing your car?!?

 

Is this for real?

 

i've heard that cyro works good at making stuff last longer. What i'm curious about is what on the car is he freezing to get better gas mileage.

 

All right,
I live in OKC and I saw this story.
I am going to have to call BS on a 120mpg car. No matter what you do to a car, you are still only going to get a certain amount of energy our of a gallon of fuel. And an engine is only going to be as efficient as it's design.
A gallon (3.8 liters) of gasoline contains 132 million joules,However, car engines are only about one-quarter efficient -- three quarters of the gasoline's energy escapes as heat rather than as power to the wheels (from howstuffworks.com) .
So even if him freezing his engine makes it twice as efficient as stock, you r only looking at about 80-90 mpg. And I doubt that just freezing the engine would double its effiency., plus there is the transmission, axles bearings all still producing drag. Even if it makes everything smoother and more efficient, the engine loses most of the energy to heat loss. Is he claiming that freezing the engine parts make the engine convert more than 2 times the heat to energy? Interesting considering that the engines are designed for the energy loss, and so is the cooling systems. And of course, nothing was tested to confirm this guys milage.
The guy owns a cryogenic company, and I think this was all a publicity stunt. And it worked, he was on the news, paper, and internet for his BS story.

I have now officially turned into an internet dork, arguing stuff on the internet.

Kent

 

I am gonna agree with you livelarg. Mainly for this reason... Have you ever noticed that car manufacturers have been increasing the pressure in the radiator? More pressure equals more heat. Now since the basics are out of the way. GM has been experimenting on using ceramic pistons, cylinders, and an eventual elimination of valve covers. The idea is to use the higher temperature to increase the efficiencty of the egine since heat is the product of energy. Now as livelarg said, the calorie stuff *which I didn't do so hot in physics anyways* is energy that is converted to heat. Using the normally wasted energy fromheat for work is the basic idea GM wants to use for engine efficeincy. Now, how would that work for cryogenesis is what I want to know?

 

The reason that so much energy is lost to heat, is because the engine is made of metal, and metal absorbs heat. that heat is dissipated to the outside engine bay or lost to the radiator cooling.
The reasoning behind using ceramic parts is that the ceramics will not obsorb the heat, so more heat will be part of the combustion = more power.
The idea behind the cryogenic freezing of metals, is that the freezing process aligns the molocules in the metal, they are normaly random due to the normal metal forming process. Aligning them gives the metal more structural strength. I have never heard of freezing making metal less apt to follow the laws of thermodynamics
Since I have only heard of this process for metals, I don't know how cryogenics would help with the ceramic applications in an engine.

Kent

 

remember that his car is a hybid. so, up until 40 mph. (most hybrids these days) its running off of a battery for power, hence the 50 mpg. there was no info on how many miles the guy drove to work, how hard he drove, nor how fast(mph) his daily commute was. it is possible.

 

well, from what I have learned in physics and chemistry, freezing a metal at very low temperature will not alter its molecular structure. At very low temperature, the molecules of the metal will not move at all, therefore, there is no way for the molecules to rearrange themselves. The opposite is true. If you heat a metal to a very high temperature, the molecules will move around so fast that their molecular bonds will break apart and a new molecular arrangement can be formed. This is similar to turning charcoal into diamond.

 

im glad everyone is putting in about this! I didnt really belive it either, but i thought i would throw it out there to see what people would say?!

 

Frozen Rotors

How hard would it be to set up a system in my shed?

 

I have a Nitrogen plant sitting about 300ft behind me. I should bring in a beaker and try my rotors out tonight.

 

Actually, according to the Honda specs: (This is the car that the guy is claiming 120mpg) The electric motor is only in use up to 15mph in normal driving and 25mph at top acceleration and the gas motor is on during hard acceleration. That is why the hybrid car gets better milage in the city than on the highway, because the gas motor shuts down at stops and the car accelerates under electric power.
Besides, if it was because the electric motor runs up to 40 mph and better milage was achieved by how the guy drove and how far to work, everyone would be capable of achieving better milage. but in reality, the gas consumption only has to do with the gas engine.
So unless the guy is driving at about 12mph for about 30-40 miles, the 120mpg is not very realistic.

Kent

 

i agree. maybe he's heating them w/ a torch or in his oven and then quenching them. that will change the molecular arrangement when you do that.

 

And do you know what causes fake diamonds to turn from charcoal to diamonds? Extreme pressure, and what does pressured do? Creates heat.

 

I wasn't talking about the ceramics for cryogenesis but you did answer my question. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew ceramics was being used to USE the heat but wasnt sure HOW or WHY it was such a big deal about using the heat for efficency.

 

Its been a long time since I was in school, but i remeber that when a substance goes from one form to another (ie gas to liquid or solid to liquid) its molecular (never was a good speller) shape can change. This is y water expands when u freeze it and does not contract. I am not a sience freek not even shure if what i said is true but I think the guy who said he gets 100+ mpg is sniffing something.

 

You are right, substances do change volume when it changes form. As a matter of fact, water expands 1700 time in volume when it turns to steam.

 

So, if I freeze my wife I'll get better mileage out of her too???

 

I know that cryo freezing a knife can do it wonders, and good heat treating is just as important. I can see that cryo-ing an engine, rotors, axles or whatever can increase its wear resistance and strength, but 120mpg... I'd have to see it to believe it.

 

Actually, as I remember from material science, cryo freezing does align the molecules. At room temp the molecules are a certain distance apart, and usaully somewhat random order unless they are cooled a certain way after heating. What cryo freezing does is pack the molecules VERY close to eachother, closer than what they would be at room temp. When they are brough back to room temp, they will organize themselves better due to intro molecular forces.

"It is at cryogenic temperatures (-300 degrees Fahrenheit) that the molecules change, making all the retained austenite turn to martensite a more dense, refined mix, smaller and more uniform than austenite. Dry cryogenic processing physically transforms the micro-structure into a new, more refined, uniform substructure, which is stronger. The dry cryogenic process doesn't expose the material to liquids, thus eliminating the risk of thermal shock. The material is computer cooled very slowly, held at a temperature for a determined period of time, then slowly allowed to return to room temperature. The entire process is electronically controlled to perform to a precise time table (20 to 60 hours), allowing the material to adjust to the progressively cooler environment, then return to ambient temperature."

Not sure how this can really relate to heat absorption, but I'm sure it has a good effect on it. Not saying that it will make a car get 120 mpg, but it could have some effect.