Why haven't my rings seated yet???
Nov 17, 2008 | 02:38 PM
#1
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From: Salem, OR
Why haven't my rings seated yet???
Its really pissing me off. Every stop light blue smoke comes out the tail pipe. Looks like crap is honestly is embarrassing. I've driven about 3k miles so far and it still doing it. It burns about a quart of oil every 300 miles or so. That is a crazy amount. SO pretty much every fill up I'm adding another $2 into oil. Why haven't they seated? I'm sure I'm not the only one who has delt with this. If I they don't seat soon I'll probably end up spinning a bearing...
Nov 17, 2008 | 04:28 PM
#5
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From: Olympia, WA
The rings are seated, but something else is wrong.
I remember... maybe i do, i dunno, but I recall you saying at some point you couldnt hand crank the motor when it was rebuilt (before firing). You should be able to hand crank it, always... without a cheater bar... well if your weak maybe but technically should be able to turn with moderate strength =)
Some ideas... was it bored? Improperly honed, over honed? ha... maybe to much material was removed during the honing process.
or if you had it bored, it was bored over but you didnt give them the pistons before hand to have the cylinders honed to exact pistons you used?
Old head? ie non rebuilt. Leaky valve stem seals (very common).
=/
*** I'm not sure HOW tecnical this is. But when you install the rings the FSM calls for them to be staggered. So the open ends of the rings aren't lined up on one side of the piston. Theres 4 rings, each ones gap goes opposite the next. So it makes a Target if you drew lines from each gap to the one across from it.. looking down onto the piston.
Not sure what exactly would be the result of lining them up improperly.
I remember... maybe i do, i dunno, but I recall you saying at some point you couldnt hand crank the motor when it was rebuilt (before firing). You should be able to hand crank it, always... without a cheater bar... well if your weak maybe but technically should be able to turn with moderate strength =)
Some ideas... was it bored? Improperly honed, over honed? ha... maybe to much material was removed during the honing process.
or if you had it bored, it was bored over but you didnt give them the pistons before hand to have the cylinders honed to exact pistons you used?
Old head? ie non rebuilt. Leaky valve stem seals (very common).
=/
*** I'm not sure HOW tecnical this is. But when you install the rings the FSM calls for them to be staggered. So the open ends of the rings aren't lined up on one side of the piston. Theres 4 rings, each ones gap goes opposite the next. So it makes a Target if you drew lines from each gap to the one across from it.. looking down onto the piston.
Not sure what exactly would be the result of lining them up improperly.
Last edited by drew303; Nov 17, 2008 at 04:30 PM.
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Nov 17, 2008 | 05:59 PM
#9
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From: Flagstaffrica, Land of Trustafarians
Does your motor secretly wish it was in a 4x4 & that's why it gives you so much trouble??? 
Really though, I haven't noticed any smoke at all in my rebuild, except for a small bit during the initial startup. What break-in procedure did you use?? Do you have any warranty on the motor? Sounds like you should be looking into that...
Really though, I haven't noticed any smoke at all in my rebuild, except for a small bit during the initial startup. What break-in procedure did you use?? Do you have any warranty on the motor? Sounds like you should be looking into that...
Nov 17, 2008 | 06:13 PM
#11
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Joined: Sep 2008
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From: So Cal
Try this next time. This is how I broke in my new Subaru motor. Ran like a champ and I got 75k out of her before I sold it. No oil burning, noise, hesitation.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Nov 17, 2008 | 07:02 PM
#12
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From: Salem, OR
Honing/boring was done by a machine shop. Pistons were new and rings were for .030 over...and it was bored .030 over. I installed everything though
Yes...that is correct. I still can barely hand crank the engine over. I have to use a breaker bar (without an extension/cheater bar) and its very hard. I've turned over several engines before by hand and it was easier. My engine winds up fast though. I can easy spin redline in N very fast.
What would the pistons need?
I took them to a different machine shop to have the new bushings installed.
Head had some valve work a couple thousand miles prior to the rebuild...and had valve stem seals put on.
Also, #1 spark plug is different color than the rest. Good compression on all cylinders.
There are only 3 rings per cylinder...and lined them up as far away from each other as possible.
The rings are seated, but something else is wrong.
I remember... maybe i do, i dunno, but I recall you saying at some point you couldnt hand crank the motor when it was rebuilt (before firing). You should be able to hand crank it, always... without a cheater bar... well if your weak maybe but technically should be able to turn with moderate strength =)
Some ideas... was it bored? Improperly honed, over honed? ha... maybe to much material was removed during the honing process.
or if you had it bored, it was bored over but you didnt give them the pistons before hand to have the cylinders honed to exact pistons you used?
Old head? ie non rebuilt. Leaky valve stem seals (very common).
=/
*** I'm not sure HOW tecnical this is. But when you install the rings the FSM calls for them to be staggered. So the open ends of the rings aren't lined up on one side of the piston. Theres 4 rings, each ones gap goes opposite the next. So it makes a Target if you drew lines from each gap to the one across from it.. looking down onto the piston.
Not sure what exactly would be the result of lining them up improperly.
I remember... maybe i do, i dunno, but I recall you saying at some point you couldnt hand crank the motor when it was rebuilt (before firing). You should be able to hand crank it, always... without a cheater bar... well if your weak maybe but technically should be able to turn with moderate strength =)
Some ideas... was it bored? Improperly honed, over honed? ha... maybe to much material was removed during the honing process.
or if you had it bored, it was bored over but you didnt give them the pistons before hand to have the cylinders honed to exact pistons you used?
Old head? ie non rebuilt. Leaky valve stem seals (very common).
=/
*** I'm not sure HOW tecnical this is. But when you install the rings the FSM calls for them to be staggered. So the open ends of the rings aren't lined up on one side of the piston. Theres 4 rings, each ones gap goes opposite the next. So it makes a Target if you drew lines from each gap to the one across from it.. looking down onto the piston.
Not sure what exactly would be the result of lining them up improperly.
What would the pistons need?
I took them to a different machine shop to have the new bushings installed.
Head had some valve work a couple thousand miles prior to the rebuild...and had valve stem seals put on.
Also, #1 spark plug is different color than the rest. Good compression on all cylinders.
There are only 3 rings per cylinder...and lined them up as far away from each other as possible.
Nov 17, 2008 | 07:09 PM
#13
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From: Salem, OR
My previous thread? I had 500 miles or so on the engine before I even took it out on a trail. And I hit 4k rpm in N and it was smoking before I took it up there.
Nov 17, 2008 | 07:16 PM
#14
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Do you own a vac. pump? If not rent one from Autozone, and hook it up to a vac port on the engine to see if its the rings burning, or if its something with the valves. I had a 3VZ one time that had a crack between the valves that allowed oil to burn, and my port & polished 20R head i purchased from somebody had a scoured valve guide hole which allowed oil to seep down.
Nov 17, 2008 | 07:30 PM
#16
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From: Temecula Valley, CA
the big problem is that most of the current over-the-counter engine oil is high in detergents / surfactants (sludge fighters), and that is exactly what an older engine (face the facts- a 91 22re is older) doesn't need.
you're burning oil because the oil rings haven't seated yet.
why they haven't seated yet with modern oil is for the academia to debate.
until they figure it out, start using an oil rated for motorcycles with a 'wet clutch'... one that doesn't have "friction modifiers" or "friction reducing agents" or whatever they want to call it. Should be API service rating SF/CC or CD.
It's not too late, you'll just keep on burning oil until it's too late.
you're burning oil because the oil rings haven't seated yet.
why they haven't seated yet with modern oil is for the academia to debate.
until they figure it out, start using an oil rated for motorcycles with a 'wet clutch'... one that doesn't have "friction modifiers" or "friction reducing agents" or whatever they want to call it. Should be API service rating SF/CC or CD.
It's not too late, you'll just keep on burning oil until it's too late.
Last edited by abecedarian; Nov 17, 2008 at 07:31 PM.
Nov 17, 2008 | 07:35 PM
#18
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Salem, OR
the big problem is that most of the current over-the-counter engine oil is high in detergents / surfactants (sludge fighters), and that is exactly what an older engine (face the facts- a 91 22re is older) doesn't need.
you're burning oil because the oil rings haven't seated yet.
why they haven't seated yet with modern oil is for the academia to debate.
until they figure it out, start using an oil rated for motorcycles with a 'wet clutch'... one that doesn't have "friction modifiers" or "friction reducing agents" or whatever they want to call it. Should be API service rating SF/CC or CD.
It's not too late, you'll just keep on burning oil until it's too late.
you're burning oil because the oil rings haven't seated yet.
why they haven't seated yet with modern oil is for the academia to debate.
until they figure it out, start using an oil rated for motorcycles with a 'wet clutch'... one that doesn't have "friction modifiers" or "friction reducing agents" or whatever they want to call it. Should be API service rating SF/CC or CD.
It's not too late, you'll just keep on burning oil until it's too late.
I have no doubt that these new oils are not made to seat rings as well since they are sludge preventative. My truck is old...and I like it
Nov 17, 2008 | 07:47 PM
#19
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From: Salem, OR
Rotella T 15w-40
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ellamulti.html
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ellamulti.html
Nov 17, 2008 | 07:50 PM
#20
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From: Temecula Valley, CA
It's not necesarily a problem with the oil itself, but what the engine was designed for. It kind of seems like you want the "worst" oil to break in your engine, then switch to the best, yeah?
So, the basic Rotella you're using in the dirtbike is probably the best thing for you to use until the next oil change, and then we'll see how it's going. If you have the option, a single weight oil (i.e.: 30 as opposed to 5w-15, etc) is probably better for your engine (for now...) but if it's starting to get cold, then you will have to use a multi-weight oil.
So, the basic Rotella you're using in the dirtbike is probably the best thing for you to use until the next oil change, and then we'll see how it's going. If you have the option, a single weight oil (i.e.: 30 as opposed to 5w-15, etc) is probably better for your engine (for now...) but if it's starting to get cold, then you will have to use a multi-weight oil.
