FilthyRich

I think regulating/ controlling "open" interenet connections is BS. Most of us know about a secure network. When you buy a router there is info about setting up a secure network. If you don't protect yourself, then why should it be someone else's responsibilty. I secure my network. If I didn't then how can I get mad at someone else for using what I have left open.

Yes we pay for it, but come one people.

Mad Chemist--back to your ???. If $$ is an issue, then go for it. I personally like having my own connection and am not limited by speed due to unauthorized users. Plus, if I ever have a problem, the cable company usually fixes it or gives me some discount. There is something to be said for having recourse

Tacoma Dude

Integrity is doing the right thing even when nobody is looking.

If you are looking to save $30/month then you are in essence selling out your integrity for $30/month.

The right thing to do is almost always the harder thing... but that's why we always admire and respect those people that take the harder path.

We'll never know for sure if you decide to continue to use someone else's signal or if you decide to pony up the dough for your own so really it is a matter of your own personal character.

I have to say that I'm really taken back with how many of you guys are saying that it's okay to steal...

Mad Chemist

Just for clarification, I am paying for my own account, which, to be honest, is unprotected at the moment. Would I be pissed to find out someone was using my connection? Nope, because I know better than to leave it open for anybody to use, unless that's what I intended. Its like leaving the keys in your car, parked in a bad neighborhood, and being surprised that it got stolen, to use PirateFins example. Who would I be more pissed at? Myself, for being the idiot that left my keys in the car in the first place. Does that make it legal? No. However, I do believe that people should take some responsibility for their own actions/inactions, such as not suing McDonald's because the coffee they bought was hot, and it burned their lap when they spilt it. Likewise, when you read all the instructions for setting up the router, and they talk about protecting it from other people accessing, and you decide to ignore that, I don't think that necessarily absolves you from any responsibility.

Tacoma Dude

So why don't you do the right thing, be responsible for your actions and not steal from someone else?

In PirateFins example *YOU* are in front of someone else's 4runner.
If you could get away with it would you really steal it and consider it your own?

EDIT:
Before this gets too heated, I'm realizing that all this text is actually coming off a lot harsher than I mean it to. But really this is a perfect example of integrity and the daily practice of it. Everyone fails at this at some point... I think the question you have to ask is how okay you are with failing when you do. I'm not looking down on you or anything (I'm FAR from perfect) but I'm just approaching this as a debate kind of like Amsoil vs. K&N

Mad Chemist

Because it'd save me ~40 bucks a month, thats why.

v8sport4runner

$40x12mo=$480 of mods you could do to your truck in a year. Not that i am saying you should do it tho...

EDIT: to clarify, i pay for my DSL connection for reasons stated above: i like to have my own access and know that i can use the bandwidth if i want. Never tried the 'neighbor has an open wireless router' method.

Mad Chemist

Yeah, I probably won't do it either, but man is it fun pushing people's buttons on these boards! It makes me laugh at what people get all irate about, especially over the internet....

Tacoma Dude

trying to cause strife and struggle, huh?

In that case... you suck man!

Churnd

However, if the person doesn't know you're stealing it, doesn't miss it, isn't being harmed by it, and generally no harm is caused by it... then why not?

Cable companies charge an arm and a leg in this world of high-speed internet because they know they can. Supply and demand can be a raging bitch at times. If the owner found out and got upset, then that'd be a good reason to stop. But if it's just to comply to the cable company's rules, screw 'em. Hell, half the people on this board are browsing this website using IE that came from a pirated copy of XP for that exact same reason.

The way I see it, sometimes matters have to be taken into the hands of the people to bring the greedy execs of the world back down to reality.

Wow, y'all are gonna jump all over that, aren't you? According to the law, I'm probably wrong. However, from a moral standpoint, you gotta admit it could go either way.

CynicX

i dont think its a real big deal. People have been doing it since wireless came out and will continue to do it. I mean come on people...its not like hes burying body parts in his basement.

Sure its not ethical and it is illegal when you use your imagination (even though it wasnt for the longest time). And the people who are buying the internet will probably never even know or be effect at all.

Although by defination this IS stealing. Your stealing an unlimited product. Which cost the "victim" absolutely nothing. Except a slower connection which on todays connection will be unnoticed.

I know I've download movies at 500 kbs on cable. While in another room played on my laptop surfing the web and could hardly tell. But I still wouldnt recommend heavy downloading. But surfering the web, checking the email....I dont see any harm....

Tacoma Dude

I have to disagree with you there.
You are benefitting for yourself something that another is paying for without their consent.

I could care less for the "everyone's doing it" or "they charge too much anyway" arguments.


Might as well trash the trails you guys ride on. There are so many other people that do it. And they can always take taxpayers money to clean it up anyway.

Tacoma Dude

Question then becomes where do you draw the line?
Can you put a monetary value on theft? It's okay to steal 'cause it's only an equivalent of $20 at best?
How about stealing a screwdriver? Only cost like $5.
How about siphoning off 1/2 a tank of gas from their SUV? That's only like $20.

midiwall

This is timely...

CynicX

kinda went over that in the rest of my post....

Tacoma Dude

Sorry... took what you said and went in another direction with it

PirateFins

You were not looking for comments, you asked the question quoted above. I gave an answer if you don't like the answer so be it but there is no reason to ignore me. Bob also agrees are you ignoring him? Bottom line it is stealing no matter how you guys look at it, someone is paying for something and you are taking it from them without them knowing it. Glad my house is hard wired.

And as far as lessons go:
Moral
Main Entry: 1mor·al
Pronunciation: 'mor-&l, 'mär-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin moralis, from mor-, mos custom
1 a : of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ETHICAL <moral judgments> b : expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior <a moral poem> c : conforming to a standard of right behavior d : sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment <a moral obligation> e : capable of right and wrong action <a moral agent>

Churnd

How do you justify companies who refuse to absorb costs of a changing economy? When instead they just pass them on to their customers because the CEO refuses to take a pay cut and give up that $150,000 sports car.

"Hell no, I'll just charge 'em more. They'll pay it. They need it." When in all reality, some of us really do need it. The way the world is changing, one day it could very well be a necessity for all of us. When is it justifiable to put your foot down and say "You know what, I've had enough of this."? Greed will be the downfall of this country, unless we all unite and do something about it!!! So who's with me?!?!? YEAHHHH!!!

Churnd

I'm sure when the pilgrims came over here and rebelled England, they had their doubts too.

Intrepid

Ahhhhhhh, thats nice, I was just looking around and realized I had run out of morality lessons, and lo and behold, one descendeth upon yotatech to ease my pain....stir, stir, stir.....

True, it is wrong, everyone knows that, you didn't pay for it, so you shouldn't have it. But do I care in the least? Of course not, I am currently working it out with my landlord so that I share his cable and he shares my DSL. IS THIS WRONG? SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I love watching everyone get all bent about this stuff.

BTW Mad Chemist, whatever you do, don't tell anyone to shut their filthy mouth, or Sir EWAyota shall rain down vengeance upon thine head!!
JK EWA, just couldn't resist, no hard feelings?

Intrepid

Would you say the character flaw is better of worse if we know it is wrong but do it anyway, I speed sometimes, that is wrong, do I lack character?