FirstToy

Corey,
I think this is a great idea. Basically this type of thing has already worked with the "group buys" to a degree and that would be great if the 4th gen owners continued to really make developments w/ good vendors and ferret out the bad ones.

If there is anyone reading this considering a spacer lift for the 4th gen, I have always tried to post two solid alternatives: Daystar and Revtek (and to buy from wheelersoffroad.com- and tell them you are from yotatech!)

The reasons: quality, they stand behind the product, long history, wheelers is a good store-great service and prices.
I don't have any affiliation w/ any of these companies- wheeler's has a long standing good history here at YT .

There is no reason to go with NE. The only thing NE offers different from anyone else is the xreas "relocs". IMO when I first saw these I was appalled at the lack of engineering. I will never use something that will potentally damage my rear axle (and yes, damaging a shock mount that is permanently welded to your axle will not be a simple fix), damage my shock (xreas is frickin' expensive- if a mount/relocators/bolt breaks, and that shock blows out do you think NE is going to replace the xreas system for you?).

I will gladly buy a well engineered, well designed relocation mount for my Xreas, however, it is very good as is so I am in no rush. Certainly not enough to risk trashing it, my truck or possibly my safety. Again, that's my opinion on the relocs.

NE bolt-on sliders: IMO,the slider mounts have welds that look like sloppy boogers. Hi-lift and pray? They dont even look like complete welds. Compare the welds on the actual slider to the welds on the mounts- how many hits before that mount weld fails? Two, three, five? And the mounts themselves...they look like they were designed to dent the frame! Seriously, I think the running boards are going to be more durable.

Incompetence, dishonesty or decietful marketing. Who cares? In the end, you are paying money for a product- hopefully one that adds to your truck and the 4Runner community. If it is harming both, it doesnt matter why. It needs to be cut out like cancerous rust before it eats your truck away.

It would be good to focus the considerable 4th gen buying power into quality items from reputable vendors.

kickaha

I don't remember anymore, but my post above was based mainly on this from sbplat: I have the same bolts. I don't know enough about bolts to tell what they are, but he seems to have a pretty good handle on the situation. His were eventually replaced. And, after everything else, I wouldn't trust AK's word on the new bolts or how strong they were.

kickaha

You're right. Stupid me.

FirstToy

Here is a chart to indicate what grade bolts you have- they will have these markings on them
http://www.unified-eng.com/scitech/bolt/boltmarks.html

FirstToy

Duc Hunter,
I think that is exactly what Yotatech admins have done. I agree with your postings and YT has done what you prescribed.
Belive it or not, the mods here are being very kind to Anthony. They could say alot more, I'm sure. And I know they are motivated byfacts not innuendo or heresay. From what little I know, Anthony has been decieving Yotatech for a long time. The reasons for his and NE's ban are based on facts. There are many facts listed in this thread.
This is not a witch hunt, this is simply turning on the light in a dark closet.

Corey

iTrader: (1)

Take out your seats and put in some outdoor furniture in your rig and you will be fine

Seriously, those are the type of bolts I used for my gas can mount and other stuff on my rack.
If I am not mistaken, they have no business being used in an area that is prone to stress such as the suspension.

Corey

iTrader: (1)

We need some more serious input here first Tracy.
But generally that type of bolt is not used for something in a fail safe area such as a suspension.

If I am correct, he is open for quite a few lawsuits if people have a kit installed with said bolts.

We need more facts first on the structural integrity of these bolts.

yabedude

Hmmm ... forget defects ... quality of product or product application seems way off now.

Good Times

Personally, I wouldn't touch any bolts that has to do w/ the suspension unless it's rated at f8 or higher.

If you visit NE's site on the reloc, the description will state that it is grade 5 bolts:
http://nitrousenterprises.com/4runnerrelocs.html

My take on all of this; If you have any NE product and don't feel secure, I'd ask for a full refund as I do remember he did offer that as a guarantee. If he no longer offers that service then I guess you're outta luck.

Buyer beware and good luck everyone

kickaha

Google to the rescue.

My bolts have a marking of 307A. According to multiple sites, this is about the same as a Grade 2 bolt. Actually, it's not quite as good as Grade 2 as Grade 2 has a higher minimum strength rating. 307A is half the strength rating of Grade 5. So no, it doesn't appear as if they should be used by anyone.

I'm going to file two complaints tonight. One with the CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) and one with the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). As I have an unused lift kit, it may be a good thing that I didn't get a refund after all.

Bob_98SR5

Dont forget your state and local attorney general's office. They are probably your best advocates for things like this

Bob

FirstToy

from a quick search:
"Always use the proper grade fastener. You should use at least grade 5 fasteners on almost everything on your motorcycle. Bolts are graded by tensile strength and are easily identified by the number of slash marks on the head of the bolt. The more marks the higher the quality. Hardware store bolts with no markings on top are usually soft, mild steel, grade 2 quality and should be avoided like the plague."
http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc14.html

Good Times

That all depends on whether or not the reloc itself is strong enough. Just because the bolts are strong doesn't mean jack if the actual piece holding the bolt will be able to sustain those kind of forces.

Sounds like alot trouble to me.

kickaha

The bolts for the reloc are grade 8 (at least on mine). The bolts for the spacers are grade 2.

My complaint will involve (1) The grade 2 bolts, (2) the material used for the spacers -- including the manufacturing, (3) the uneven spacers, (4) the material used for the reloc, and (5) the new mounting position for the reloc. Right now, all of those are possible points of failure. Since AK's word apparently cannot be trusted regarding one point, I see no reason to trust it regarding any other point.

Good Times

kickaha, please keep us posted on the on going investigation. I am sure everyone here that has any of the NE products will be very interested in how it will affect them as well.

Thanks for taking the big step for everyone.

4run4fun

Been watching this thread for a couple days...time to weigh in...

I ordered my relocs from NE back in September. They took considerably longer than I expected to ship them, but when they finally arrived I was completely satisfied with the product, and still am. As a few others have stated, I was not surprised to have missed shipping dates, etc., given the fact that this was a start up business. The bolts on mine are grade 8, as this pic shows:



The engineering of this item to me is quite solid, and I have put them to the test extensively with no problems at all, as you can see:




Throughout my contact with her, I believe that Tracy was as honest with me as she could be. What I mean by that is that I knew that She and Anthony (or whatever mr. enigma's name really is) were located in different states and that she was trying to serve the customer as well as she could from a remote location. A customer service person can only tell the customer what they are told.

I have been very successful in business for years and know that long term success only comes from serving the customer HONESTLY. However words and deeds are two different things. It seems to me that NE got in over it's head and rather than being honest with its customers it chose to try to fake its way through. Too bad...could have been an excellent business opportunity.

I hope people will give Tracy the benefit of the doubt. She seems to have done the right thing in getting out when it all stopped making sense to her.

Anyway...just my two cents

Duc Hunter

Grade 2 bolts are too weak in that place? PAAAALLLLLEEEEZZZZEEEEE!!!! I used a single grade 2 bolt on my FJ40 to mount the shock to the axles and never had a problem, even jumping at sand hills at Pismo. Note the strengths of bolts. How big are these bolts? HOw many are there?

Clicky Clicky

All figures are in lbs.
Dia.....Sheer Thread.....Full bolt Sheer......Tensile thread root
3/8............510...................830............ ................410
7/16..........700.................1130.............. ..............560

If there are 4 bolts then
3/8...........2040...............3320............... ............1640
7/16.........2800...............4520................ ...........2240

Since when does that area take that much load? If they are not propperly bolted down then they may fail, but than they are instaled wrong! This is really grasping at straws guys.

firemedic

You definitely don't need to "always use Grade 5 hardware" on automobiles, it depends on the load/forces it will be subjected to. I'm not familiar with the particular bolt you are speaking of, but an example is the lower shock mount bolt on the front of a 2nd gen 4r is tourqued to 18ft-lbs if I remember correctly, now I don't know what grade the bolt is, but my point is it doesn't need to be extremely tight because it is apparently not taking much of a tension load, it is holding the shock in position so the suspension components can take the load. Supposedly, sometimes a higher grade bolt is not recommended because it won't fail before causing more damage. Each application should have a specific grade for it's puposes.

firemedic

I am not at all familiar w/4th gens, but am assuming this bolt is replacing a shorter/longer bolt, if so, the best thing would probably be to find the original OEM Toyota bolt and make sure the replacement bolt is the same or similar grade/strength.

FirstToy

that is b.s.
employees are not liable. Owners of the LLC are.