Flygtenstein

I feel like being entertained. Several threads lately have trumpeted the failures of IFS yet no one has real good reasons or personal anecdotes.

Because of this, I was hoping that people could fill me in on why they think it sucks. In so doing, please include what set-up you are running, especially preferable if it is IFS and you are getting rid of it. Alternatively, if you now have a solid axle and used to be IFS, why you ditched the IFS. Experiences where IFS stopped you from completing an obstacle or running a trail would be a definite plus.

Disclaimer: I know why IFS does not work for some people, just wanted to hear some different people and why it does not work for them.

AznSky

I tore a cv boot driving over a sidewalk (STOOPID!!).........that would be my only reason/experience with something bad about a ifs

crawler#976

I bought the '87 w/ the intention of SAS'n it, but had to drive it for a few months prior to starting on it.

The truck came w/ 2.0" Rancho T'bars and RS5000, a 3" body lift and 35" BFG's. It had not been regeared-

I locked the rear first thing w/ a Detroit and regeared to 5.29's. While that helped power wise and traction wise, it did not cure the lack of flex. I got stuck on silly little obsticals, when crossing ditches it would lift a tire or two, had it almost flop several times, and quickly realized it's severe limitations for AZ trails. About the only thing it did OK was F.S. fire roading, but the lack of up travel limited that too-

After 3 months and too much money, I completed the SAS w/ a complete AllPro SAS front kit w/ hi-steer and 56" rear springs, rear axle flip kit, Marlin Crawler, All Pro T'case mount, Rear V6 Spool, Detroit up front, AllPro Sliders, home built rear bumper, diff protectors, C/V'd d'shafts w/ long travel yoke for the front, and a bunch of motor stuff from LC Eng. Later the cab exo was added, and I'm still working on a front buimper solution-

I ran all of the trails that were difficult prior to the SAS in 2X4. Easy. No Problems. W/ 14" of front travel, F.S. roads were a blast- ditchs crossed w/ the truck cab staying almost flat. The only thing that got scarier were off camber hills- the soft springs allowed for a lot of body roll, especially after the Exo was added- it's been over since then w/ no real damage to the rig tho.

Later

joshik

i must say one thing... crawler,.... your rig is BAD@$$!
dats like my dream setup.. but with my 91 p/u!

sschaefer3

So basically it had no front suspension what so ever. Best way to screw up IFS is jack it up with way too stiff t-bars. Same thing goes for the SAW's and the 3" jack up johnnies.

No flex = No kidding

Jack it and trash it. Adrian, you ALSO need to dump those t-bars you have or buy a winch. You don't have front suspension either. The air shocks that elipster guy work out was really something.

http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/air_shocks/

I devised a way to make my SAW's even softer, actually as soft as stock but with 2" of lift and hold the bumper/winch. I never heard the tires grind the top of the wheel wells so much.

upndair

I ran IFS for several years. I good IFS setup, with lockers or LSDs and good driving can get you just about anywhere on the NW trails. The locker or LSD is a must if you run IFS. This compensates for a lot of the the tire popping by always keeping power to a tire that's on the ground.

My main complaint was that that IFS kept falling apart, but it wasn't all the fault of the IFS. It was a lousy lift install. The diff was too low so every time I stuff and turned, the inner tulip joint would pull apart. The release of torque would twist all the mount brackets. So just about everytime I went wheeling, I came home in rear wheel drive only and had to replace front end parts.

This wasn't the fault of the IFS alone, it was more due to a crappy lift.

Anyway, the SAS (combined with the coil spring conversion) made all the difference in the world. To be frank, the trails that I run with most are not just too plain easy. This is actually a downfall as the rig is overbuilt for the trails that I run. There's a little more challenge when you have to work to get over an obstacle, rather than just driving over or through it. I kinda miss that. Now I keep trying tougher and tougher obstacles, which soon enough will result in a roll over or serious damage. I don't regret doing the the suspension/drive train changes that I've done, but you can have a great deal of fun with a well built IFS suspension.

smr4runner

OK. Curious minds want to know.
How did you make your SAWs softer?

Most of us are running SAW's with 1inch diff spacer (including you). However most are cranking the SAW's above the 2.5 inch limitation. The bad thing about that is the coils are too compressed. Sure, your rig sits level but you lose the ability to stuff your front tires or as you put it, you NO longer have your front suspension.

So what did you do? Did you keep the original 2inches (without cranking the SAW's) even after installing the diff spacers?

Thanks
Mike

sschaefer3

I will not reveal that secret until I slaughter at least 1 Coloradoan. It’s way too good.

Bring it on snow boys.

smr4runner

You tease!

Jeff the marmot

The primary advantage of coil-overs is that you can change the spring rate and the shock rate to match the vehicle and driver's wishes. The most obvious method of making the SAW's softer is to simply buy replacement Eibach springs (14", 2.5" I.D. springs) with whatever spring rate you want in order to put your travel where you want it. I'm still not reaching coil bind in compression on an RTI ramp but mine are 600 ppi and could clearly still be softer. I've been using these springs for a year and a half and really like them. Around $130/pair of Eibach springs if you want 14" springs. You might even experiment with 16" coils if coil bind becomes a problem but then you'd have to use a spring compressor in the assembly. Keep in mind I've never been able to reproduce the 773 RTI that I got when I had the super squishy Fabtech/Fox's that were probably 500 ppi, although I don't know exactly. I'd bet you could rub the wheel wells a lot with known 500 ppi springs and 285/75R16 tires.

BOT, by far the primary thing I don't like about this IFS design is the weak axle design (not large enough diameter axles throughout the front). If the axles and diff were stronger to reliably transmit more torque, I'd love it. Front axle's narrowest diameter is 1.05". Rear axle is 1.31". Make the front as strong as the rear and it would be more reliable and enjoyable on tough stuff off-road.

I have to say I really like what Camburg has done on Fear's 4Runner with 13" of IFS front travel and 19"? or so in the rear. But he's still stuck with the stock front diff and weak axle diameters.

ravencr

I haven't had any trouble out of my IFS setup, but I haven't been wheeling this truck long enough to tell.

But, I do know what Steve did to make his SAW's softer. I didn't know this was privelaged information!

Chris

sschaefer3

Keep your mouth shut. I really mean it. Don't tell anyone, yet.

ravencr

Steve,

I hope you know I wouldn't say anything. I'm just glad it's made such a big difference for you. I wouldn't have expected it making that big of a difference, but I could also see how it would. That's awesome, and my lips are sealed.

Chris

justinh

i want to guess....did he install more parts? possibly one made by a really big company that makes a non-coil lift for 4runners?

Mad Chemist

I think I know too, now that I think about what I read in an old thread. Your secret is safe with me, as long as I get my parts soon!

sschaefer3

As of today there is a second part no one knows about. That guy should have them done tomorrow. I'll give him a call.

lcopelan22

IFS is ok and I ran it for a long time. My best friend always had an 83 straight axle on 36's. I have driven that thing over and through some crazy stuff. Toyota's are possesed!! On trails that my truck would cross up or pull a tire, his would coast over "usually in 2wd". I have been wanting to do the solid axle swap for like 6 years now but finally got an axle and the funds to do it and it went in like a champ. IFS is fine, I had alot of fun in mine. I climbed a rock out here for a while that guys in tricked out Jeeps would tell me I was crazy for doing. I have only seen 4 trucks make it up. My IFS, My bud's straight axle, My buddys IFS, and my brothers K-5. I climbed it today again by the way. It was the first time since I broke my IFS axle on it. My other buddy broke his IFS axle on it about a year ago. The only other friend I have with an IFS has a busted axle right now too. That's the drawback, the IFS is weak. They break, and break, and break again. IFS is fine depending how your gonna use it. But if you keep breaking stuff start thinking about a swap. I'm not knocking IFS by anymeans. It works fine. I just love it that I found a site where people actually use their 4x4's. Every jackleg in my town has a ford or dodge on 40's with no front driveshaft.. What are they thinking????????????

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

Basically what i dont like about IFS is pivot point, and CV angles. You can only lift it so much without throwing off your CV angles. A straight axle has a longer pivot point, so instead of takin 4" to reach max angles, you can articulate more to reach the same angle, which translate into more ground contact. The advantage IFS has over a straight axle would be diff clearance. Whats why Hummers use Portal IFS, and Unimogs use Portal straight axles. OF course, Unimogs are the ULTIMATE 4x4's haha but I cant afford one of those axles.

upndair

That is debatable... An IFS has a couple of inches of STUFF below the diff that can get hit, otherwise it would seem to be a little higher. It'd be intersting to measure the clearance with wheels/tires, IFS vs Solid axle.

I know that you know that a Portal Axle and Toyota IFS are about as different as Toyota IFS vs solid axle.

However, here's where that idea of increased clearance get shot. You're nose down a hill (or landing hard), and both tires are getting stuffed. How's the clearance now between IFS and solid axle??

scott.475

I don't think there is any debate, at least if were talking Toyotas. The Toyota solid axles just plain have more clearance over the Toyota IFS. I would imagine the original question was probably specific to Toys. If your talking Hummers and the custom pre-runner rigs, then yes, I can see where IFS can have more clearance than a solid axle, but at that point we are comparing apples and oranges.

IFS, as used on our Toys, is made for street comfort, plain and simple. If you wanted to do a pre-runner kind of build on your rig the IFS would give you a more comfortable ride when absorbing bumps at high speed because each side is, more or less, isolated from the other, but with a solid axle, if you hit a bump on one side, it will affect the whole axle and, therefore, the whole ride.

Those pre-runners are awesome though...over three feet of suspension travel!