Flygtenstein

First, we are not E-buddies nor do I feel like we have sufficient rapport to make remarks like that. Some day if we have a beer, we can joke that way.

Second, long travel and solid axles are two different animals. Vertical wheel travel is not the sole measure of a rock truck. Just because a long travel truck and a swapped truck have "X" inches of travel does not mean they are the same.

I will not bash your rig wantonly. If you ask what I think and I think it is foolish, I will tell you.

I have watched long travel trucks get eaten alive rock crawling. That is not what they are made for. I watched them break, winch, break and winch. Stock IFS trucks that were identical in every other way kept cruising.

Wheel your rig. Find out what it does and does not do. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts it is open diffs and small tires that are holding you back more than IFS versus solid axle versus long travel.

Come to Arizona or Colorado or Moab. I would be happy to show you some rock crawling.

init6

Why would a long travel truck break, and stock IFS not break? What broke on the long travel trucks? The only differences between a stock and long travel truck (in the case of the TC kit) are A-arms, Tundra axles, and tie rod extensions.. I can see the wider track being a liability in some cases.

JamesD

I too don't know what he meant by that. I have a 2wd Fabtech Toy with the arms and I jumped that truck all the time. If I did that with the stock Toy stuff, something would break or bend severely.

To answer your question, he is right, a good set of tires, better gearing and better traction devices is what most of us need. I had a friend who has an old Range Rover, you know the ones you see in Africa with the aluminum body. Well it is stock with some sort of lockers from the factory I think. It has small mud tires and it sits as high as a Subaru Outback. He went everywhere just about and we tried to follow him with our open diffs. Another buddy had a lifted truck and he got stuck as well. The little Range Rover pulled us out.

James

Randomness

I've seen plenty of SFA rigs take a crap in the rocks, too. I don't think that proves much. Especially if stock IFS kept going? There's a problem there.


I think that you were dead on about traction devices and tires. People would be surprised how far those things will get them. Lockers can get you into plenty of trouble, regardless of what suspension you have

88Runner

Basically the reason why these "SFA" rigs are failing on the rocks is probably because of 1. They cant drive their rigs well... OR... 2. They decided they didnt need to invest in all of the beefed up lift components.

deathrunner

Sorry if you took offense to that. I was just letting him know that there are people (I just used you two as examples because you always show up in long travel threads) that don't approve of LT setups. And if he was worried about getting poked fun at for having a chaos setup, that it happens. Never bothered me, but he asked.

Sorry that you don't think we're E-buddies. I harbor no bad feeling toward syou or anyone else on this board. In fact, I have learned a great deal from you and others and am very appreciative. If alcohol is all it takes to be your E-buddy, Let me raise my E-beer to you in a friendly gesture.


Now, back to trucks. I'm glad Init6 posted in here. Check out the Toyota 4wd owner mag for some pictures of his rig in rocky sections. It's not the hammers, but it sure as hell ain't the dunes. I think him and BruceTS have done the most rock crawling with LT IFS that I know of. They both have rack and pinion steering which has been proven by Flygt to be stronger than the earlier steering setup, so maybe that is also helping them.

I guess my question now is regarding strength. How much stronger is a stock birfield compared to a t-100 or tundra axle? I understand that the CV's are really IFS's weak point drivetrain wise. But what if porsche CV's were installed? They are beefy as all hell.

BruceTS

The only times I've broke an axle was due to doing something stupid or listening to my spotter, like in Moab when I broke a left front axle after I was told to "just bump it" On the Rubicon I had no problems and even followed the same line that the SA trucks were taking. A classic example on where a SA truck couldn't navigate the rocks, just happen recently in Hungry Valley's 4x4 practice course where I crawled through and a built 1st gen kept getting his front diff hung up on a boulder that my skid plate allowed me to slide right over. Needless to say he ended up breaking a LF cromo axle and a RF Longfield. Personally I have to say I've seen more SA trucks broke than IFS, but then again out at the Hammers 99% of the trucks going on the trails have SA's.




Stock birfields aren't that strong, but with 30 spline Longfields they are just as strong as a stock D60. The CV's aren't the only weak link, I've busted the outer CV, an axle shaft, Jack shaft and inner CV. Even if you put stronger axles you move the break point to the components inside the diff. IFS isn't bad, it just the drive train isn't very strong......

With that said I like my long travel for the type of wheelin I do, having all the up-travel really makes a difference running fast and the ride is real smooth. The main reason why I get hung up is simply because of breakover clearance and keeping your rig low, you can't get around this problem. Now if I wanted to run 37's then I'd have no choice but to do a SAS, since 35's are pushing the limits of the IFS driveline.

Randomness

That's oversimplifying it. It's not just the "beefed up lift components", it's more the beefed up axle and drivetrain components, among other things.

Flygtenstein

Stock to stock is foolish.

I never see any broken 2005 Tacomas on the trails I wheel, they must be way better than the truggies I have been out with.

Get a locker, spend some time on the trail, then find out what you need for a front end.

So a blind, deaf and dumb quadraplegic driving a comp buggy while an able bodied person drives a Subaru in the same place shows Subarus are better rock trucks? Sure.

MNBOY

What do you got against Subaru's? Always gotta be dissin someone's ride....

rockota

Dude - RELAX! Seriously, you're negativity is getting WAY out of hand. The questions are fine and others have done their best to answer to the best of their ability, but your sarcasm and attitude are getting in the way. Let it go or don't post...

YeloSub7

umm... I thought we were talking about SAS vs. IFS here guys, keep on topic...

Anwyays Justin, I say go SAS, but tha's just my $0.02

you know the rest...

Napoleon047

WOW THATS THE MOST ˟˟˟˟˟˟ HARDCORE VID IVE EVER SEEN

im going to sell my sas rig so i can build a LT runner and get a WHOLE FOOT of air TOTALLY RAD!!!!

init6

I'm looking foward to seeing your pics.

deathrunner

HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOL

You kill me, dude.

tc

I would definitely vote for longtravel IFS.

IMHO, rides better on road, more "usable" ground clearance for the same size wheel/tire, and looks cooler. (I know there is serious flaming coming over that comment)

My Fabtech longtravel lift rode better than stock on paved roads and was absolutely phenomenal on fire roads, etc.

Just my $.02

Albuquerque Jim

Napoleon047

a few notes:

ive never ridden in a LT IFS rig, but my SAS'd rig rides WAY better than it did IFS on the road. how many of you have ridden in a PROPERLY SAS'd rig?

I dont know about anyone else, but my IFS wouldnt hold an alignment at all. every wheeling trip i was replacing idler arm bushings and having an alignment. now, i can align the rig myself with a tape measure.

AxleIke

Step 1: Figure out what you are going to use your truck for the most.

Step 2: Get lockers drive truck, see what it can do

Step 3: Decide if you still want upgrade

Step 4: Go drive a couple of trucks with different set ups, see for yourself

Step 5: Get lots of money so either way can be done right

Randomness

I've ridden in, owned, wheeled, and thrashed a rig that CAME with a solid axle...and even with a fairly tall, flexy lift (and coils at all 4 corners) it didn't ride as good as IFS. You can't base everything you think off of one admittedly problematic truck.

Why do you think they put IFS in? It's sure not 'cause it flexes better...