upndair

I'm not going to agree with that line of reasoning, in fact, I completely disagree - of course, it's just my opinion.

I did build the way you suggested and found that it was a complete waste of time, effort and lots and lots and lots of money to build up over time. I am an advocate for doing it right the first time. Decide where you want to go and get there. I wasted mutiple different lifts, lockers, gears, wheels and tires that are resold for peanuts compared to what I paid for them. I probably threw away $4,000 - $5,000 in these changes and that's after I resold as much as I could.

I understand your reasoning behind wanting to grow your skill with your truck, but the financial waste and time waste is incredible. I could have spent a LOT more time wheeling if I wasn't constantly fixing, upgrading etc, AND having to pay for it all.

Knowing what I know now, my recommendation to people is drive it stock for a while, perhaps get some good used MT tires that will fit. Maybe put in a small body lift since you're likely to keep that. Run it for a while, watch other people and their rigs. Take the passenger seat on the more challenging trails if you and your truck are not ready - THEN - decide what kind of 4 wheeling you want to do. Put the truck up on blocks and do it all at once. I have over a $1000 in drive shaft changes alone that I could've done for under $400 if I'd done it all at once. I couldn't sell any of that since it was primarily shortening, lengthening, changing parts etc. That was all in a 6 month period. If I had that extra $600 back I'd take a couple days off work and wheel the crap out of my rig instead having to work to pay off the money that I wasted.

I fully respect your opinion, I just disagree with it LOL

Skydigger

Interesting thread...

I posted the same question on a local board and got a 50/50 split response too. Both sides presented great arguments.

Ultimately, I decide to do the SAS first. It's a huge leap to do it right and lots of $$$. I'm talking about not just the SAS itself but the re-gearing, shocks, full rear suspension lift to match the new front and tires and rims.

I figured that after I've wheeled and learned on my new SAS/lifted rig I'll be ready for a locker. Heck, I'm ready now but that's an extra grand I just don't have.

I'm hoping that keeping 4 wheels on the ground more often will necessitate a locker much less than it does with my current IFS set-up.

Good luck with yours,

Warren

TDiddy

Yes, very interesting thread. Makes me realize how much more I'd like to learn about my rig and serious off-roading mods!

descendents

i say sas it, weld up the front and do hydro assist and throw a lockright or something in the back when you regear for the 37's your gonna want soon after

kelly

oly884

I'm thinkin' no.

Skydigger

Yeah. Welding up the front would not be good IMHO. Once you lock those hubs you're stuck in locked mode in the front which makes steering a pain and increases your turning radius too.

That's why so many choose a selectable locker for the front.


Regards,

Warren

Flygtenstein

Do any of you know anyone who is independently wealthy and can afford to stop using their only transportation for a couple of weeks to go frmo IFS on 31's to a solid axled 37" tired locked and crawlered rig?

Not bloody likely.

One locker makes a ton of difference, two makes IFS really decent. The only time that I have disliked IFS is in regards to small tires, not the problem with articulation.

Regarding welding, do you like to steer ever?

Keep in mind, all of my drivle has come from the mouth of a man with a double locked, regeard IFS truck that I am throwing money into.

upndair

Someone building a rig like you describe, wouldn't be using it as their only vehicle and if they had all the money to put into that, then they very likely do have a second vehicle.

A well-built locked IFS can be decent, but it can't compare with a locked, lifted, crawlered, solid axle rig on 37s. A person doing this is building a trail rig, not a daily driver, so taking it off the road for a couple of weeks to do all the work is pure reality for people building this kind of truck. I been there, throwing money at an IFS rig as well. This is why I keep harping on suggesting that people decide what they want to build and do it right the first time. Don't waste time and money building a double locked, regeared IFS rig if you eventually think you'll go do an SAS.

Tire size is only a small issue on IFS. I ran 35s without any problems on an IFS rig. Does the 37 make a huge difference, probably not. The articulation does make a huge difference, especially if the front end is open.

Don't get me wrong, I don't tell everyone that they need to build a double locked, SAS, crawlered, etc rig, just that if they are going to, do it right the first time instead of what I did.

If the IFS diff, gears and lockers would fit in the solid axle housing, this would all be a mute point as then you could spend the money on the parts and swap them into the solid axle later. Now that would just about have eliminated this entire thread though!

slyang1012

you guys who have IFS, is it 4wd? isnt it better to go SAS? i have a 2wd Tundra and want to convert it to 4wd and i think that it would be easiest to SAS it. What do u guys think/

slyang1012

you guys who have IFS, is it 4wd? isnt it better to go SAS? i have a 2wd Tundra and want to convert it to 4wd and i think that it would be easiest to SAS it. What do u guys think/

ORB

I don't know if I'd put "easiest" and "sas" in the same sentence, but it has been done to tundras...

86runner

i voted sas because i currently have a ifs and know how bad they are out on the trail. they have less articulation and they are weaker. and like you said oly884 you already have a deal on the axel. i mean you're going to be doing both eventaully anyway so why not go on the deal that you have right now.on the other hand if you are going to be putting a locker in the front then it would be nice to put it in when you regear it and have it all apart.

Keggo

Get the giant project out of the way first I think, then you can just lock both diffs and regear both of them after you do the SAS...

01Mossy Oak edition

I did not even vote. It depends on how much use you are gonna get out of it. I would love to sas my 01 Tacoma but.....since it is my daily driver at 50+ miles a day I elected
to upgrade my my ifs set up and stick with 33s. And yes I do wheel the heck out of it and yes I know I would be better off with a solid axle but I know the short comings and deal with it. If I had a second vehicle than I myself would look more seriously into it but the $$$ is not there. In my area there is not any rocky trails like when I lived in WA. but there is a bunch of river bottom muddy trails and my truck does great!!!
When the day comes that I can build a full on kick butt trail rig I will get either another Scout II, (I miss my 76) or a Land Cruiser, or Nissan Patrol which of course will come with a solid axle.

Randomness

There's a thoroughly bad idea. Having a Detroit Trutrac in the front of my Jeep was bad enough when turning.

I vote to decide what kind of wheeling you're going to do. A locked IFS rig can go a lot of places, and do fine on quite a bit of terrain. If you really think you're going to wheel hard and often enough to warrant a SAS, then go for it now.

Glenn

You have a nice newer truck. Are you really going to wheel the piss out of it with what you can do with locker and/or SAS? Are you ready for body damage? Are you such a good wheeler with your IFS setup that you find yourself limited by your rig as to where you can go?

How about getting an older second rig that is not your daily driver where it doesn't matter as much if you beat the piss out of it and it breaks?

DealMaker

If this is for a 2004 Tacoma (the rig in your signature), I'd forego the SAS at this time since the rig is so new, and assuming your friends will be there for you to do the SAS later. Couldn't you find a complete Toyota e-locker rear axle for cheaper than an ARB? Maybe leaving you some $$ leftover for an ARB in the front in a year or so?

az4x4runner

:pat:

AxleIke

I'd say about the only thing true about this statement is that an IFS can not be built as strong as the strongest solid axle. No matter how hard i try, i can't get the strength of a full floating Dana 60.

That being said, have you wheeled your truck to the point that it can't be wheeled any more with the current suspension set up? Everyone says get a SAS. WRONG!!! Learn to DRIVE your truck first. IFS is NOT bad on the trail. This weekend my IFS open both diffs with stock gearing and 28 inch tires made it farther up a trail than an open both diffs with an 8 inch lift solid front axle on 35s cherokee. How you might ask? By learning first how to get an open diffed truck up those obstacles. If you can't run a trail, and know exacly where all 4 of your tires are at all times, you don't need a SAS.

There is however, some merit to deciding what you want to do with your truck. If you have wheeled for 30 years, and this is your first toyota, and you don't like IFS, then you should definetly go SAS. You already know you'll want it.

A double locked IFS rig will get you on trails that will scare the poop right out of you, and can potentially get severe body damage. A SAS will just get you onto harder trails.

As to the guy who wants 4wd on his 2wd tundra, i don't think this applies. I would think that putting in an axle would be easier than trying to run cv joints and axles and whatnot into the 2wd IFS set up. Not sure, never seen a 2wd.

ianshoots

I have not voted but I have two questions for the original poster (one of which has alread been asked, but not, I believe, answered).

1) Is the truck getting the potential SAS your daily driver? I don't know how wealthy you are, but it sounds like you are finishing HS and off to college (I may be wrong), is this potential truck really what you want for your only ride? 37" tires (or whatever massive meats you might wind up with) are not gonna be commuter friendly in terms of mileage. For that matter, wearing out big MTRS on the road is kind of a waste, IMHO.


2)I don't know anything about your friends and they welding/fabbing skill level, so I'm just gonna toss this out there.....they might be all hot to TRY a SAS, but technically, are they up to it? Like I said, I don't know them, but it would sure suck to tear into your truck and discover that its over their heads. I don't weld at all, so its all over my head, but it seems like a potential pit-fall.

Good luck with whatever you do and with school in the fall.