SCdudeBro

Well I just finished figuring out all the piping Im going to be needing. I've decided to finally turbo my 94 3.0 ext cab 4x4. I'm going to do a turbo set up where the turbo is mounted in the rear by the spare tire. For those of you that have heard of this understand why I'm doing this. One becuase of when I go to smog it. As long as nothing is seen under the hood, then all should be well. HOPEFULLY. Thats the idea anyways.

I will keep everyone updated on my progress. I'm hoping to have it done and on the road in about amonth and a half. Thats an over estimate too. Also any input is appreciated. Thanks

Casey

AZBlackTacoma

Is it one of those STS turbo kits? If it is thats hot man, I want one of those so bad...

ironroad9c1

good luck on headgaskets..lol ,let us know how that jank turns out

NCSU-4runner

make sure to put in a metal headgasket and use upgraded head-studs like ARP or you wont last long

SCdudeBro

Its actually not a kit. A buddy and I are doing everything ourselves. I already got ahold of a t3/t4 and ordered piping. Once that is all mocked up and installed I have to get a new chip flashed or made for my truck.

Thanks for the input on metal headgaskets. I actually am going to order some arp studs. Thats a must. haha

Randomness

I'll believe this when I see it. You'll put the turbo in the far back? So you're going to run piping to the turbo ALL the way to underhood? And how about the intercooler? You'll have to excuse me if I'm just a LITTLE bit skeptical.

brandontrek

i am with him.....^^^^^....too many problems with piping...etc. good luck to you though...it would be a cool concept if it works out....

rimpainter.com

Ah, I hate to say this, but a "chip" or ECM reprogram will never satisfy the increased fuel demand. You are going to have to upgrade the fuel pump at a minimum and at least have something to control timing under boost, like a BTR module, and probably a hotter ignition set-up.

Not trying to be a naysayer, but you are going to need more than just 20ft of custom piping and a T3/T4.

cootees

Rear turbo mounts have been done on numerous vehicles before. i.e. http://chevyhiperformance.com/techar...48_0502_turbo/

It seems to be more trouble than it is worth. The closer the turbo is to the exhaust manifold and intake manifold the better the air will be forced. mounting in the rear is a long way to travel back up to the engine compartment. Unless you use a beefy turbo then I do not see it being worthwhile. It's a good concept, the turbo would stay a whole lot cooler back but with it being mounted back there.. however if you take it on the trail then it will get beat up very badly. Plus unless you run the intake back up to the engine compartment then you will have you intake sitting underneath your truck which will cause more problems being on a trail. If the filter falls off and you suck up some dirt, gravel etc.. then there goes your turbo. I say leave this concept for the cars that never come off the pavement.

As far as the chip goes.. he is right you wil not get adequate fuel by installing a chip. I'm not sure what size injectors come on the 3.0 but I would at the mimum put at least 450cc injectors on with a fpr and a walbro pump.

You've done your homework about this but it doesn't sound like you realize what all you will need to do to pull it off. Oil feed and return lines will need to be ran back, coolant lines will need to be run back. Depending on the type of intercooler you go with you may need to run IC lines back up to the front of the vehicle.

Randomness

They've been done, but it's retarded. More than "not worth it".

And it would be disastrous on the trail, and also on the road. What if it rains, or you hit a puddle? There's far more reasons NOT to do this, than reasons TO do it. Cootees made some good points too.

Corbit

I would like to see the cost of this , then compare it to the 7-MGET swap. I think you would be money and head ache ahead to to the swap , not to forget power ahead.

photomike72

take a bunch of pics.

Good luck.

Mike

SCdudeBro

Well the concept with the intercooler is that you actually don't need one. The turbo is mounted far enough away from the engine bay that there is more than enough air-flow so the turbo keeps itself cool.

A chip is just a step in the right direction towards fuel management. I know I'm going to have to upgrade the injectors. I dont plan on boosting a lot. I just want to see what kind of results I could produce with like 6 lbs of boost.

Armor for the turbo is something else I sat down to figure out. I came up with a simple heat shield type of cover. That way air flow is not resisted but it "should" in theory be protected from things like water and puddles. The last thing I want is for my turbo to be fully submerged in water and turn to junk. Basic puddles and things like that shouldn't hurt it. Trail damage and other obstacles like that is still an issue I need to completely figure out.

Having that much piping running under your rig can be disasterous. If done correctly and well that potential for disaster could possibly be avoided. But theres no saying a big boulder can't just come up and ruin my whole project.

I'm trying my best to work out all the kinks. I appreciate everyones ideas. It all helps. I just think it would be something different that has the possibility to have a really good outcome. heres a link to something very similiar to what I'm thinking of..

http://www.ststurbo.com/tacoma_install_pics

jimbo74

the idea of a rear mounted supercharger like that is retarded!!!!

(and i did not say user, as i will get banned if i did)

photomike72

Hey WTH, somebody had to be the first to try all of these other mods that we all do. I get strange looks from people when I tell them that there is actually a forum for my car/truck that I can go check out for new stuff.

If it works cool. If not, he may figure something else out that no one has done. What if it rocks?

Mike

4runner4ever

I see a lot of custom turbo setups, either gas or diesel, and I have done several myself.
I'm not saying it can't be made to work but there are a few things to consider:

a) it takes a long time for the oil to presurize and properly grease the turbo bearings so the turbo would die of oil starvation very quickly or wear out fast. You will probably need an elctric pump which pre-lubes and after lubes the turbo at startup or shutdown.

b) what happens when off roading and the vehicle is climbing a ramp (say 45 degrees), the engine is way up in the air and the turbo way down. You think the oil return line will let the oil flow back 8 ft up to the engine without problems?

c) the turbo would have to pressurize the piping, which is very long, before you notice it in engine performance so you would have enormous turbo lag.

d) an intercooler isn't for cooling the turbo. It's mounted AFTER the turbo to cool the air which is heated by the turbo and goes into the intake. Cooler air and more fuel gives more power. Since the turbo is driven by exhaust gas it will always be hot, regardles where you mount it. A good working turbo gets really, really hot, up to an orange color! The long piping will have some cooling effect i think, espacially if it's from aluminium.
The turbo is normally hooked up to the cooling system.

e) the closer the turbo is mounted to the manifold, the better it works. It's not only the air flow from the exhaust gas that drives the vanes, but the natural effect that the hot exhaust gas leaving the exhaustmanifold enters the turbo rotor sideways and expands in the center of the turbo rotor and leaves the vanes centered. The gas now has a larger volume. This is why the turbo manifold intake diameter is about 1/2 the size as the gas exhaust diameter where the downpipe attaches.
This effect is lost if you mount it way back and will limit power.

In my opinion mounting the turbo that far back might be okay for a street vehicle, not a 4WD.

RustBucket

iTrader: (1)

There aren't alot of truly new inventions, just people making stuff that didn't work in the past work now

Yota4runner

It could work, but keep in mind that there are such turbos out there that are designed to be set up this way. Its going to take alot of work to run it this way. If you were to get one of the ones designed to mount back there you wouldn't notice any lag and it might all go together a little smoother.

Toyota 4x

I would do a 3.4 swap instead...with the $$$ you will put into that damn 3vze your better off just runnin a 3.4....plus you can supercharge that no probs....

I'm gonna be taking out my freshly rebuilt 3vze and doing the conversion real soon on my race truck...have new fuel pump plus 7 custom injectors for my beast...bolts right to my tranny and all

Sell my freshly rebuilt 3vze for 1500 and I pay 1000 for my Taco motor plus 2300 in goodies (charger, wire harness,and all the pasts I had made in addition to some things for the swap)....pretty good outcome w/ 330 hp for 1800 bucks IMO

Toysrme

People without:
A) Custom turbo charging experience
AND
B) Remote mounted turbocharger experience
Need to keep their opinions to themselves on what will & will not work.
Some random points in no real order.
There is no more restriction on a multiple bank(V) single turbo setup under the hood, than there is mounting one remotely.
Instead of having 8-10' of bendy pipe trying to merge manifolds, then routing back up into the engine cab to mount the turbo, you've got 10-12' of straight pipe that is many times faster to route.

"The exhaust has heat energy". Is always the biggest single load of crap that comes up. Yes... It does help. Look at any manifold mounted turbo VS engine bay turbo. What people tend to never notice is that it has got to be THE LEAST IMPORTANT variable in spooling a turbo...
Guess what? If you mount a turbo on a Y pipe, or on the engine bay, The exhaust has already gone from 1200-2000*F down to 400-600*F. There isn't an appreciable difference in response. A small amount sure, but has anyone even cared to document it? Never. What's the difference in 400-600*F and 200-400*F. Not much...
You won't see any significant difference in spool between a common engine bay mounted turbo, and a remote setup. *ESPECIALLY* if you're choosing a turbo that actually fits the engine powerband you're after. Don't do the now common monster turbo at a low psi that has bene popular in the last few years... It serves no purpose other than killing responce in ANY case.

When it comes to intercooling, I have found both STS, and the the company that does the vette have the right idea. Skip the few PSI drop of the intercooler. The charge is going to cooler by the time it get's to the throttlebody anyway. To begin with, the turbo itself is going to be bearly any hotter than the exhaust pipe is where you mount it. The compressor is going to be much cooler than on a manifold. If temps start to climb out of hand, run water injection. Easy, cheap, and nothing works better. (If I could find space for a 3 gallon take in a freaking transverse Camry, you can find space for one in a dang truck...)


Most people have FAR too much oil supplied to their turbo in the first place. Most of the time, a 3AN, or even a RESTRICTED 3AN line is required to give the correct amount of oil, instead of the most common 4AN size most people use.
Not only that, but combined the low flow most turbocharged use with the fact that it is hella easy to mount an electrical pump within drawing distance of the return - there is no oiling problem. Not only that, but there is no need for expensive steel braided lines. Tho small size fuel/oil hose is harder to find, it's not impossible.
Personally, I have used 1/8" feed line, with a 5/16" return lines several times. On my personal setup I used a spare OEM (i.e. useless) fuel pump. That worked fine for months until I took it off to decide to do a big single, or twin turbo (Twin turbo has won - winter projects rock!).



Want some advice? (Remember free advice is the worst kind LoL)
1) When you're doing a low-mount system, it's easier to fab a y-pipe, and mount the turbo where the cat sits, instead of where the muffler sits.

2) Take the oil pan off & clean it. Drill a hole the exhaust size of the barbs above the oil level in the pan. Take a normal hose barb of the size you're using (for me it's always a standard 5/16" brass hose barb). Coat the inside wall with a glob of JB quik & push the barb through. Then coat the outside of the barb to pan with JB quik.
Hold for 5 min, or until it can support itself.
That's strong enough for an oil return and laffably simplifies the step. Don't like JB weld? Tough cookies - it works. You could braze it in if you felt like it... But that begs the question - why not buy a steel fitting & mig/tig it on.

3) Concerned with spool? You can MORE than make up any minor difference easily by negative spring creep in the actuator. Using a boost canister & a longer wastegate actuator hose. Using a 10-15' long wastegate actuator hose,along with a boost canister. (A boost canister is a sealed volume T'd into the actuator line) 10-12oz canister works great (Hairspray bottle). The first, and last 20% of spool will quicken to the rate the turbo would spool without a wastegate on it. Much more than negating any lack of response. More than likely, for daily driving, you wouldn't want to do it.
You can also do the same thing with a pop off valve that connects back to the beginning of the actuator hose through a one way check valve. Many people do this, but they forget the one way check valve. This tends to cause creep problems. Don't forget the one way valve!

Want more boost? Combine the pop off/one way valve with a quality pressure regulator. That will work many times better than any manual controller you could possibly buy over the counter.


Take my word for it, if you start with a semi responsive turbo, it can get highly annoying to drive on an engine that has some good power to begin with when you kill off wastegate creep. I'm sure you'll have plenty of low end grunt for a 4wd truck.



Management is easy, these old OBD-I ECU's will accept even insane choices in injector size with a piggyback without a problem.


How would I know some of this? Because I done not just a few custom turbo charged vehicles, but I've done a few y-pipe & axle remote setups also.
Early fitting pic from my own car before any adjustments, or clean up was made.



I really dno't mean any offense to anyone, but this really is one of those few areas where if you HAVEN'T done it yourself, you need avoid talking about certain parts of it.