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I cleaned up the pissing match that was going on and re-posted the thread for public view/posting.
Rock has some new data he wants to post and I'd kind of like to see it.
Keep this thread drama-free, tech banter back and forth is fine but be cordial with each other or else this is going back into the Black Hole where only Staff can see it.
Don't want to clutter up your thread, but figured I'd post my recent Oil analysis on my 3RZ... They mistyped the actual miles, it's 156,600 miles not 5600 miles
oil filter was a bosch premium
I figure it's worth it to prove I can do 8-10k mile oil changes, a few analysis payments will pay for themselves compared to doing 3-5k changes without knowing what's going on.
Thanks Fink, you rock! Guys, please keep the banter civil. I don't want to see the thread disappear forever!
Ok, so I mailed both used oil samples thru the post office this past Friday. I was shocked to find both PDF reports in my email inbox today on Tuesday. That's the fastest I've ever got a UOA report back.
With that said, I'll post both mine and my wife's 4Runner UOA reports tomorrow. My PDF writer is having some issues. Stay turned.
Very interesting Rock, good to see a comparison of 2 5VZFEs with the same oil and about the same OCI. Have you found anything wrong with the air intake on the 2nd one that would let more dirt around the filter?
I have had a truflow air filter in my '02 for quite some time (2-3+ years). I have been using just a stock air filter in my wife's '00...and yes, it does need changing.
As far as the air intake itself on her 4Runner, it looks good.
The True Flow is a drop-in but it is not run dry.
Interesting results Rock, it's a great way of not only comparing oil qualities but also many other aspects - like the air filters.
Ok, gnarly is getting picked on a little too much in this thread. He does make a good point though, what do you do about level changes? New bearings on an engine with low miles and high readings? I think not...
I'm no Toyota Technician but I think if my 22RE had coolant in the oil it would only take about 10 mins to figure out where its coming from
I get that tests are useful to see wear (probably fueled mostly by curiosity) but what if numbers fluctuate with the same oil and filter? This would indicate different driving conditions most likely.
Also, I noticed that people having these tests done are using DIFFERENT oils each time. Now I went to high school (and completed it as I hope you all have) and I learned a little bit about "variables"
Change the variable, you change the results.
So how could you get consistent data with different variables?
Well, I don't think you would...
Unless someone has ran the same oil for at least 3 oil analysis tests with the same car same driver same driving conditions same oil filter etc etc
Anyways, like I said, I'm no technician, so if anyone could enlighten me on what this test really helps out with (besides foreign matter in the oil) I would love to learn!
Ok, gnarly is getting picked on a little too much in this thread. He does make a good point though, what do you do about level changes? New bearings on an engine with low miles and high readings? I think not...
I'm no Toyota Technician but I think if my 22RE had coolant in the oil it would only take about 10 mins to figure out where its coming from
I get that tests are useful to see wear (probably fueled mostly by curiosity) but what if numbers fluctuate with the same oil and filter? This would indicate different driving conditions most likely.
Also, I noticed that people having these tests done are using DIFFERENT oils each time. Now I went to high school (and completed it as I hope you all have) and I learned a little bit about "variables"
Change the variable, you change the results.
So how could you get consistent data with different variables?
Well, I don't think you would...
Unless someone has ran the same oil for at least 3 oil analysis tests with the same car same driver same driving conditions same oil filter etc etc
Anyways, like I said, I'm no technician, so if anyone could enlighten me on what this test really helps out with (besides foreign matter in the oil) I would love to learn!
I think some reading may be able to enlighten you a little.
They have some pretty good info on their site.
This is the report on my first 4runner, which i just sold to my brother. I changed the oil right when I bought it in November, and this sample is from the oil I put in when I changed it in November. Pretty happy with it. I've noticed the TBN is low on both my reports using Valvoline SynPower. It was low on my first 1999 report, and it's pretty low here on the 1996 report.
Vehicle: 1996 4Runner 4wd Auto
Motor: 3.4L (5VZFE) w/ K&N full intake and cone filter
Odometer: 184,000
Oil: Valvoline SynPower 5w30
Filter: PureOne Purolator
Mileage on Oil: 4,800 miles
I've never paid the extra for the TBN, but you got me wanting to now. I wonder if it could be tested with litmus paper, doesn't it basically just measure the PH? Too acidic = low base number, no?
One thing which may not be case too much here but i know that the MR2 (3S) and Supra (2J) install neutral start switches which most of our trucks already have. If you really want to prevent premature bearing wear, start your truck in Neutral! I wish I had learned this in my old 3sgte as I soon had crank walk. Oh and if your already putting in an oil cooler, go ahead and spend a little extra and get an oil accumulator(and electronic actuator if you want to be extra careful), helps with heavy wheelin when you know your engine oil is getting tossed around a lot.
Changing the oil regularly is not only key to mechanical components but to gaskets and seals as well as my 3RZ blew and #2 piston ring at 247k from a previous negligent owner who had not changed the oil regularly.
Knocking seems to be common on 2RZ's when lugged at low r's. I think the 22r does it a little too, however both 3rz's never have which is odd to me.
I apologize for apparently being a "drama King". I just couldn't figure out why someone would call me a troll (based on my posts) and get personal just because I'm presenting a different perspective on a topic. I was really just playing "devil's advocate" to try to get some more indepth facts on the subject presented.
I should have been more specific in my posts.
I spent 7 years working some of the best fail analysis scientific minds in a number of high tech manufacturers and research labs in the Southwest.... I'm not a scientist, but I'm certainly somewhat familiar with failure analysis testing.
UOAs are purported to provide data that allows one to see changes in a number of factors that will alert you to "out of norm" or "out of range" figures.
At what point in those "changes" do you actually effect an action to change the results of the data? What changes do you make to your engine? What changes can you make to the oil? Or the oil filter? Or any other qualitative or quantitative factors during the analysis? On which figures in Blackstone's data do you know what to change?
Or is the data just interesting and like watching a clock, it just tells the time and you can't change that?
I see one major problem with the test results: can you duplicate "exactly" the same conditions from test 1 to test 2?
How do you know what the oil chemistry is from bottle to bottle?
How about the oil filter? Does it have the same exact components, manufactured under the exact same conditions?
Did you use the same fuel, from the same pump, from the same truck that delivered the fuel?
Did you drive the vehicle "EXACTLY" the same way, with exactly the same engine RPMs, with the same exact shifts, during the same ambient temperatures, with the same mileage, during the same exact route, with the same exact traffic conditions?
Will a raised level ethylene glycol "mean" something... yes.
Will a raised level of lead "mean" something...yes... OK now what?
If the level of lead goes up by a factor of 10, do you pull the engine and replace the rod bearings? At what level of increased parts per million of a mineral, element, or metal do you know it requires action on your part? What action do you take? Why?
I'm just curious to understand more what the UOA process does for the average daily driver, and then what can I do with the information.
Where were these kind of posts last time?
Now we'll be able to have a decent tech thread.
I think people should to keep in mind that UOA is just that, used OIL analysis, not used engine analysis. I don't think anyone would ever consider replacing engine bearings based on that and that alone, IMHO that seems foolish. In fact newer engines will show higher wear numbers than older engines, because the parts are breaking in. Yes it can tell you something about the engine, especially if there is a major problem like a head gasket just starting to leak or a fuel dilution problem.
It is a tool for seeing how well your oil is doing and if anything needs to be done it would probably be changing the oil type or weight or OCI or filters (air or oil). I think when you find what works good for your engine, driving style, conditions you'll see it in the UOA numbers. IMHO don't make it harder that it needs to be.
There is a whole section on BITOG devoted to virgin oil analysis if anyone would like to see numbers on an oil straight out of the bottle. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...oard=11&page=1 It can be useful for seeing amounts of additives, virgin viscosity, virgin TBN, etc... Or you can of course send in your own sample if you want.
Speaking of sending in samples, I saw a tip the other day after a guy got an unusual UOA result and was wondering if the sample got contaminated. The tip was to always take 2 samples at the same time, but only send one of them in, then if something seems really weird (or if the sample gets lost in the mail) you have another one to send in for testing. It doesn't cost any more unless you send the 2nd sample in since the sample cups are free (from Blackstone anyway).
03-29-2010, 07:05 PM
Guys, please keep the banter civil. I don't want to see the thread disappear forever! 
