PoBoy

My bad, I was referring to an All Terrain Tire or Mud Tire vs a stock street tire. Last weekend in the Badlands I was with 2 guys one with a 3 inch sus lift but with street tires...and the other stock but with All Terrains. Guess who made it farther of course...

I wasnt refering to bigger tires...just better ones. And with the $900 you save by doing a BL, you can buy some very nice and bigger MT's that will bring you much farther than a stock tire in many situations.

jruz

Well, if you do check back in...please post a link to the lift you are referring to. We must be talking about different lifts. Then I might be able to see where you're getting your "factual" info from...because I still disagree if we are strictly talking facts (preferences probably will differ).

Yeah, no doubt an MT would do better than an AT.

I guess I was just think that an IFS lift that does a better job of keeping the tires on the ground, might be better than the diff between ATs and MTs. (unless you are locked, but that's an entirely different subject)

Jim

Firefyter-Emt

Here is a IFS lift kit.. The kit contains all brackets (the thing that kinda looks like it could be a control arm is really a bracket to make up the diffrence in the droped lower control arms and the uppers that remain in the stock position..




"For 86-96 models front lift is achieved by lowering the lower control arms via one-piece crossmember assemblies. The axle housing is lowered as well to keep CV axle angles just as they were when stock. The upper control arms must remain in their factory location since they mate to the torsion bars which cannot be relocated. The upper control arms remain in their factory location. A new precision cast and machined knuckle assembly bridges the increased distance between the upper and lower control arms. Note: The 4” to 5” front lift height range is determined by torsion bar adjustment."



OH yea... I forgot, you need to buy new rims as well.. I can still run 33 x9.50's

"Also included is bracketry to relocate the anti-sway bar and brake hoses as well as high quality hardware. This lift requires the use of negative offset wheels (3-3/4" back spacing or less)."


Yep.. here is is in it's "glory" Gotta love those bump stop extenders.. Dang near looks like "booty fab" So can you tell me where this system "works" better than stock??? Sure looks like stock to me.. I just can not see the gain from spending $1000 on it.. BTW, I bet given time.. I could get the parts to do a SAS for the same $$

"

BTW... anyone want to take bids on what the Hi-Lift was used for?? I know, and this was a photo taken from Superlift's web site... (all the captions were there, they are not mine...)

jruz

Cool, thanks for straightening that out.

So, let's take a better look at each lift...(info from 4WPW, and some other site for the shocks)...

Superlift 4" lift + new rims = $1040 +$120 = $1160 (assuming the old rims won't fit at all because of the back-spacing)

BL 2" and shocks = $102 + $120 = $222
BL 3" and shocks = $113 + $120 = $233
(I dunno if the 3" is necessary for fitting 33s...?)
Diff clearance increase:
IFS lift = 0"
BL = 0"
Clearance increase for rest of 4Runner (everything between the front and rear axle):
IFS lift = 4"
BL = 0"

So for $222/233 you get a total of 0" of extra clearance with the BL. For about 5 times as much ($1160), you do get 4" of extra clearance, just not under the diff.

Ok, you've got a price difference...so add some 33s onto the BL to get the prices closer...

BL (3"...?) + 33s/rims = $233 + $810 = $1043

Diff clearance increase:
IFS lift = 0"
BL = 1"
Clearance between f/r axles:
IFS lift = 4"
BL = 1"

Wow, save that extra $120, get 1" more under the diff...and 3" less everywhere else. Is that BL still a bargain?

PoBoy

My stock tires were 30''s and there is no need for new rims. So you would gain 1.5+ inches and still have $200+. So thats atleast $300 saved and 1.5+ inches all around plus you get some Mudd Tires or All Terrains out of it.

Lets also not forget about the labor involved in a Suspension lift. If you cant do it yourself or have the tools to do it, its gonna be big bucks. Id say atleast $500. BL requires 2 wrenches and a highlift = $60. Its a DIY.

Take that $300 + $500 - $60 = $740 and save up for a SAS.

A good driver with good tires will go farther than a good driver in a higher truck with street tires. And if you say not on rocks...well you are going to have to air down those stock tires to get any sort of grip with them...thus you'll be negative diff space.

Flygtenstein

The cost of tires is a wash.

I paid:
-1" Bodylift $100
-Low Pro bumpstops $30
-25mm T-bars $100
-Downey HD coils $175
-Downey Spacers, etc. $125
-Bilstein front shocks $130
-Rancho Rear Shocks $70

That makes $730, oh heck round to $750 all told? Are you going to tell me that I should have gotten an IFS lift instead?

That is what I did to fit 33's.

I did not add any brackets or anything.

I have a low truck that has identical ground clearance at the diffs to any other truck on 33's. I also have sufficient armor to absorb a landmine explosion.

I look at the pic Lee posted and cringe. That is just me after 4 years of wheeling, goofing and reading.

Perhaps for the next trick we should argue between an LSD and an ARB?

Who voted this at 5, I thought it was 4 for sure.

PoBoy

Ill vote it a 5 when its official that the BL wins

LSD vs Full Locker is PURELY a personal preference. No ifs ands or buts about it. But hell, arguing is fun LSD SUCKS!! GO DETROIT!

Firefyter-Emt

Wow.. I love your math.. OK, so you tacked on buying 4 new 33" tires to the cost of a body lift and brand new shocks? Why the shocks?? You don't need new shocks unless they are worn out..

So in realilty, you need a $100 body lift from Roger Brown (under $100 for a 2" and all the hardawre extra barckets ect..) You don't need the shocks, you don't need anything else..

Body Lift $100
Lowest points on truck left stock

Suspension $1260 for lift & rims
Lowest points on truck left stock

Now you both need 33's, With 33's you need new gears.. Now You have to regear that crap IFS.. Me, Final statement.. If I am going to spend money to regear, It sure the hell is not going to be in a stock front end..

I wish you luck with a IFS lift if you ever go there. Of course, you don't have one of these front ends so you don't need to worry about it.. But there is a reason why everyone is dumping IFS lifts and doing the solid axle swaps.. And it is not just on the PBB.. Just look around, ask people who have HAD THE LIFT.. and ask what they think about it...

jruz

Cool, so you combined an IFS lift and a BL. Probably the best way to go. And the BL is minimal, so you shouldn't have too much trouble with it.

Jim

jruz

Cool, I forgot that not all 2nd-gen 'Runners came stock with 31's...so your benefit was greater in that respect. But you could've fit 31's without a BL, so that's an extra .5" of clearance without a BL. Wow, super...every inch counts (or half inch in this case).

Yup, a cheap thing is usually easy...wouldn't have it any other way.

If the Superlift is DIY for you...SAS surely will not be. So you're looking at over $3k for that, no new tires included. Just exactly what makes the SAS the perfect choice for everybody?

jruz

I added the tires because you would otherwise have absolutely no gain from the BL. Zip, zero, nada. With the tires, you gain 1"...woohoo!
Tires wear out, so everyone will need a new pair eventually. Just ride on your stock tires for a while and instead of buying another pair of the same...get some MTs.
Shocks, Ok, I'll agree. I was just putting it on a level playing field with the IFS lift...which will be slightly improved from stock.

Partly correct, diffs are left at stock clearance amount. Everything else, 4" of extra room. Do you just not care about your transmission, cat, muffler, etc...?

Cool, that is a good personal preference. Re-gearing will vary. My 2nd-gen came with 4.88s from the factory, so I probably wouldn't need the re-gear.

Yeah, I won't be lifting it...probably the most will be a 1" lift in the back to level it out. You're right, I don't have first hand experience with this particular lift. Could be junk, I dunno. I could probably ask a bunch of people about BLs too. I'm sure there would be hits and misses also. Oh well...

PoBoy

A SAS is equally as difficult as a IFS lift. Just more parts and more labor. But all in all, the difficulty levels are close.

My point is that $740+ is a huge chunk of change. Take the shocks out and its roughly $1k saved. That my firend is a third of your SAS estimate. That is a HUGE chunk of change. If you dont want to sas fine, there are thousands of mods can be done with $1k.

Which makes it perfect for a beginner since they get to know their truck and buikd some confidence to do the SAS as I did. You keep saying "cheap." Id like to know how the 100's of people who have purchased a Roger Brown lift feel about it. I garauntee you none of them will say it's "cheap" other than referring to cost.

Man you dont off-road much. Every damn millimeter counts. Ive been at points where Ive had to air up my tires just to get over something. Ill take every single inch, half inch, centimeter, millimeter, ect that I can get.

If the purpose for this truck is to ultimately become a true trail rig, body lift is the way to cope in the mean time till money for a SAS is available. Its a great mod for beginners and builds confidence to do other things. IFS lifts are a waste in the end, ask everyone who SAS's why. IFS = NO FLEX. If you want a true trail righ, you want it SAS. Not only is it 100 times stronger, its also a hell of a lot safer as your tires are more likely to stay on the ground. Heh, add the fact that you get around 7inches of lift with a SAS...Its better unless you prefer better handling for pot-holes in the city.

Yep, Im already axel shopping and my IFS lift is going up for sale as soon as the daily driver arrives in 3 weeks. Wish I ran accoss these boards before I blew all that cash on it. But what's done is done...

Flygtenstein

My gosh, this is like a car wreck. I just need to come back and look to see that it is really happening.

I did not do an IFS lift, not at all.

I did regear my IFS and lock it, made sense to me at the time and still does now. That has made a big difference, lockers are funny that way.

In the end, a bodylift costs around $100, takes an afternoon to install, and gives a way to fit 33's which was the question asked.

Why is a solid axle better? Holy cow, this could go for pages now!

PoBoy, you replaced components and got lift, I would not call that an IFS lift. Is this 5 yet???

I am laughing out loud right now.

First, someone said that bodylifts are tough to install and take a long time. Then I said, I have one and it didn't.

Then someone said an IFS lift is better. This brought some good pictures and further discourse.

What is cheap is not always easy, what is easy is not always cheap.

I can't stop reading this. It is too funny!

PoBoy

Its about as close as you can get to a "true" IFS lift for a 3rd gen. I think most third gen owners refer to it now as an IFS lift since you are modifying the suspension and getting lift out of it. Thus a suspension lift. And since its and IFS truck...IFS lift. Regardless, I spent a boat load of cash on my suspension and I will be removing it shortly for a SAS.

jruz

Flygtenstein is right...I am laughing now too. Just how hard do you think the IFS lift is to install...? :pat:

I'm sure the poly-pucks are of nice quality, but yeah that method of lifting is what I would call "cheap". Comparable to using blocks to lift a rig that has leaf springs. Yup, cheap...no offense intended.

Sadly, nope. But out of the dozen or so times I have been, never once run into a situation where I had to air-up. Must take days to run a single trail if you can look at every rock and see if the extra inch will help you clear it without a scratch.

I agree completely. But if you have the dough to have a separate daily-driver...then it is a moot point. SAS is the best for a trail-rig, that is a fact (unless by trail we are talking desert-running, but that's another thing).

jruz

Ok, so you cleared 33s with just the 1" BL, right?
That's pretty good, why would anyone bother with a 2" or 3" BL then?

Yup, they're worth every penny...but lets keep on the topic.

Never said they weren't better, just that they're not better for everyone.

Yes, technically replacing the suspension components would give your truck additional height, right? When you put on a lift, you gain height. So you still have IFS, but with a lift. Come on now, let's put the two together..."IFS lift". Hooray!

Yeah, some of the arguments you've made are hilarious.

Jim

jruz

Ok, I am done. Nope you didn't win, this is lame and going nowhere fast.

I guess preference takes president over fact. So you guys can keep your BL idea, and I will keep my IFS-L idea.

Hasta,
Jim

Flygtenstein

I can't believe that I am catching flack from someone who has owned or done neither of the mods being done.

My first post answered the question specifically. It shows what I did to run 33's. Not something theorhetically dreamt up or otherwise fabricated.

T-bar lift does nothing for keeping the tires out of the sheet metal, it is not a suspension lift, it only places the tire in a different point in the arch.

A true suspension lift, as Lee and I apparently understood eachother to be discussing, not coincidentally what was brought up by the starter of the post, is one that has brackets and such, or at least in the bounds of this conversation.

There has been entirely too much crap thrown around here, blatant falsities that some attempted to rebuke.

If anyone is reading this part of this thread, look at my first pic and be done with it.

jruz

Precisely. For both sides.

I guess our definitions of "IFS lift" do differ.

Sorry if you felt attacked, 'twas not the intent.

Jim

PoBoy

Ohh come on!! Its been fun...keep it going! "For both sides"??!! I see no falsities in the body lift side...misunderstandings maybe, but no falsities.

I will agree with ya jruz on your definition of an IFS lift though. If you modify the suspension...its a suspension lift. Just because it didnt come in a neat box that says IFS lift...doesnt mean its not a suspension lift. Thus, I consider my 3rd gen to have suspension lift.