WATRD

You keep stating somehow heavier oil lubricates better in our engines than the recommended grades. And now you are stating that the recommended grade is some sort of conspiracy, designed to benefit the manufacturer.

Please cite some sort of concrete evidence to that effect. Because lacking any sort of repeatable study supporting that, it sounds like a bunch of B.S.

Yota4runner

I run 15w40 as well. I get it cheap. as in for free cheap.

4-RUNNIN' FREAK

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#The 3000 Mile Myth


http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Go...motor_oils.htm
Group IV includes polyalphaolefins (PAOs) (AMSOIL, MOBIL1). Group V includes all other basestocks not included in Groups I, II, III and IV. Esters are Group V basestocks (Red Line).

kyle_22r

20-50 will be OK in an R engine. not the best in freezing weather(you can hear the oil pump whine on a frosty day sometimes for a second) but definitely not going to hurt the engine in the long run.

94x4

Well, I find that I am catching it yet again today, but that's pretty much the norm, huh?

Your and Mad Chemist's usage of the word "conspiracy" is, well, your and his usage, not mine.

I'm not proposing any theory, conspiracy or otherwise, I am merely doing that which I always do which is state the facts. I find that it's a better practice to do so instead of theorizing background information on a subject being discussed in an effort to offer it additional validation. This practice also serves to insure that I am correct in the advice or information that I am offering.

WATRD

If I had to give an example of a "conspiracy" theory, it would read much like your quote;

So, yes, it may be my use of the word "conspiracy", but it's use is accurate in describing your beliefs. I think that "paranoid" might also fit in there somewhere.


Where I come from, "facts" are verifiable and repeatable. You made a statement, now back it up with facts. I think "theorizing background information on a subject being discussed in an effort to offer it additional validation" is EXACTLY what you are doing, complete with a made up word designed to make you sound credible (lubriocity). Also, just for conversation sake, a "coiffure" as in "...expenditure to fatten their coiffures..." is a hairstyle, I think you meant "coffer".

Since you made an outrageous claim, then refused to back it up with evidence, I am done with this and I am sure that the other folks reading this can make up their own minds about whether what you say has any credibility at all.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

First of all, that is complete B.S. Second, it is ignorant to blatantly stereotype "most" engineers. Third, engineers are the ones who designed and created the "real" world that you now live in and enjoy.

There are D.A.s in every profession.

WATRD, Rob is dead on...putting the 20w50 into a vehicle recommending 5w30...manufacturers recommend oil weights for a reason. 20w50 is a poor choice for a suitable replacement for 5w30 or even 10w30. Get that crap out of there and go back to what you had and then go the fool that sold it to you.


Engineer who lives in the real world

kyle_22r

you guys are talking about a 22R-E! as far as i know, 5w30 was NEVER recommended as the all-around oil for these engines. only for cold climates. 10w30 or 10w40 are more commonly used, these engines like it better.

in fact, my 20R manual recommends 20w40...and being that these have the same bearing journal clearances as any 22R or 22R-E, you do the math...

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

Page 109 of the owner's manual...1985 4Runner 22RE

has a whole table for "recommended Viscosity (SAE)" including 5W30 and molasses.

They actually state in a summation 10W30 or 10W40 is "recommended."

I personally use 5W30 as that is what Toyota makes the dealership use in their vehicles for better temperature range protection.

I still wouldn't put 20W50 in my 22RE except maybe if I had a massive oil leak and had to limp it off the trail or something and nothing else was available.

CoedNaked

I could be wrong, but aren't the heavier "weight" oils recommended for towing and extreme "stress" situations on your engine and the like? First off, did I hear that right, and second off, if I did hear that right why would that be?

I run Mobil 1 10w30 in my truck pretty much year round. I anticipate when I do my next oil change I may dump in a quart of 5w30 amongst the other 4 quarts of 10w30 just to thin it out a tiny bit for the winter but otherwise I'll stick to the recommended ratings for the most part. The thing that I appreciate the most is knowing I give my truck top quality (synthetic) oil.

Sparman

The guy has 220000 miles on his 22RE - 20-50W is fine. I think it's safe to assume there is sufficient wear on his engine to accomodate the heavier weight.

A new engine should get what's specified, an engine with 200K miles, come on.

WATRD

Unless the oil pressure falls through the floor or it's pouring past the rings and smoking like a chimney, in which case the engine is on it's last legs anyway, there is no reason to randomly change oil viscosity based upon some "gut feeling"...

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

mike87

the engine seems to be in pretty good shape, btw how much is a rebuild for a 22R-E or to buy a "'new" one?

94x4

First off, thank you, Rob, for pointing out the grammatical errors to me..., what I had meant to type was indeed "coffure" instead of coiffure and "lubricity" instead of lubriosity and I've conducted the appropriate editing. What can I say, I've got big fingers and they sometimes slip.

"Facts"..., o'kay, how's this.....

Please go to Motor Oil Myths and Facts, from http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm and select the "Thicker is Better Myth" link.

There you will find, among several other interesting facts and information and even links to several other more commonly used/known references that all support the same conclusion, i.e., thicker is better.

Personally, I did'nt see the need to point out the obvious by posting extraneous links to data that supported what information I was passing on to an interested party merely because I feel that anyone of even meager ability to rationalize the common sense reality that a "heavier"(thicker) oil will readily provide better lubrication than a "lighter"(thinner) oil would.

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

I disagree and use as an existing refrerence the Orange County Choppers episode where they blew a brand new engine because they had too heavy a weight oil and it wasn't thin enough to pump because of the cold temperature. Sure thicker is better...if you live in FLORIDA!

You forget...Al Gore invented the internet so everything on it must be true!

kyle_22r

i think most places run anywhere from $1000-1500 for a long block. they're an easy engine to rebuild mechanically(wiring etc is different, i just did a timing chain, what a god awful mess the intake manifold setup is).

94x4

The "point" that both you and Rob seem to be ignoring, Brian, is that Mike's engine is several years old with several hundreds of thousands of miles on it and so, would obviously benefit from usage of a thicker oil..., I would not have advised him that it was o'kay to do so if it were not.

94x4

And as for "conspiracy theories", Rob, there is not one mechanic, tech, weekend wrencher or automobile enthusiast here or in the world that does'nt know that manufacturers don't necessarily always use the best materials in the manufacture of an engine, e.g., Ford's use of inferior material for their valve stem seals that lead to their engines being plagued with oil loss and/or leakage for years.

It's a built in atrophy that insures that you'll be coming back again and again for "routine maintenance" and "check ups" through out your ownership of the vehicle. They could indeed build it better, build it to last, as the materials and technology are and have been available for years, yet they chose to cut corners in order to cut manufacturing costs for them which, inevitably, equal increased expenditure for us to keep our investments (cars) running and increased profit for them, i.e., see simple economics, period.

Facts are facts, not theories, conspiracy or otherwise.

Ironmike4x4

Read my earlier post.... ASK YOUR LOCAL DEALERSHIP. They have more of an "isider info" to what oil you want to run in your vehicle. My dealership runs 10w30 as a standard since like I said before we have mild winters. If you have to run thicker oil to keep it from leaking or prevent blowby from the rings then you need to replace the rings or just have it rebuilt. And again.... if you run too thick of an oil then you run the risk of the oil sump not picking up enough oil and let's just say it ain't pretty when the engine is deprived of oil. I've seen it on a racing Corvette when the driver ran a really thick grade oil and did not put the heater on it before the race.