bamachem

but the UZJ105 is still available w/ a "live axle" ... aka, SFA.

Jared

Well as someone who bought a nearly 30k vehicle (I dealed down to 27k) and is now wheeling it all the time, I will tell you, it's not that bad. I got out of college and needed a vehicle. I wanted something new, because I had never had something new, but I wanted something I could take offroad. I thought about getting a Jeep (yeah I know), but decided on something more comfortable and reliable. Although my wife wanted to keep it pretty, she knew that I bought it to also go offroading. Now, I try my best to keep it from getting any body damage, but I didn't spend all this money to have the thing sit around and look pretty.

On topic, I don't think Toyota would ever release a sfa on a new vehicle, but I do think they should think about offering more offroad friendly TRD packages. Front and rear lockers, bigger wheel wells, longer coils, bigger tires, etc.

bamachem

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=35306

Intrepid

I was going to say this same thing, this means they wouldn't necessarily have to create a whole new vehicle, just make this work with a taco body. A lot of people wheel a $30,000 vehicle, I know multiple people that own Rubicons and wheel them, not to mention all the people on here with expensive rigs, some of which are now trail rigs only. But I agree, they will never do it, there isn't enough call for it.

ebelen1

This is kinda funny as Toyota starts passing Ford and GM on sales. Toyota, including Lexus, will be the number one car company in the world w/ in the next five years.

Similar point to this is the supercharger. Talking w/ URD, there were over 500k 3rd gen 4runners (not including the 3.4 Tacomas) sold; however, only 20k superchargers have been sold. That's less than 1% of enthusiasts willing to do this.

Don't get me wrong b/c I love the stuff we discuss on this board and it has made me a more avid mod person. But, Toyota knows what it's doing and as someone stated above, people vote with their wallet. Why I'm so impressed with the 4runner is that I see people on this board that have over 300k miles on their original truck. Every few days, someone is posting a newly bought 1st or 2nd gen runner and we're in 2005. I'm new to Toyota and new to trucks in general but WOW!!!!

Intrepid

I don't think this is a valid point, I know that a lot of people would love to have a supercharger, myself included, but only a few of these people would dare try to install it, I think I would get lost trying to do the fuel upgrades and everything necessary to get it tuned. I am sure a large amount wouldn't because it would void their warranty. I don't pretend that the number would jump really high or anything but it would certainly be higher if it was an option from the factory.
Enthusiasts and wanna-be's spend a lot of money. There are a fair amount of rubicons out there...hell, look at the WRX, they sell a decent amount of those too.

rockota

But that's a "Cruiser"

rockota

If enthusiasts are willing to spend $$, they will pay the dealership for the install of an S/C and 7th injector kit - afterall, that doesn't void warranty when installed by a dealer. Self install has a greatly reduced warranty period.

So while I understand your point, I disagree.

Tacoma Dude

There are a lot of people that abolutely "MUST" have a solid axle but don't know the first thing about doing it and so they don't. Doing an SAS is more labor intensive than a supercharger install. It's a great analogy if you ask me...

Jared

But if the supercharger was a factory option, how many more would be on the road? I say a ton.

Tacoma Dude

That's true...
There's been a large emphasis on HP lately. Comfort still reigns supreme though...

Flamedx4

[[[Originally Posted by Flamedx4
Toyota has forgotten what made them in the USA. Sporty cars with real sport (all gone now) and rock-reliable trucks that could take astounding punishment, go damn near anywhere, and take you to work on Monday. They have lost touch. But they do have lots of cupholders now... ]]]


[[This is kinda funny as Toyota starts passing Ford and GM on sales. Toyota, including Lexus, will be the number one car company in the world w/ in the next five years.]]

No, that doesn't contridict my points. I said Toyota's sales are fine. I also said that what originally MADE Toyota a big seller in the USA is gone now. They just build stuff for the sales department spreadsheets like everyone else - they have forgotten the "enthusiast." ("There are more "soccer-mom's out there than off-roader's, so let's not build off-roaders any more, there's not as much profit in it.")

I did not say their corporate bottom line was suffering. It is us, the last of the loyal, who are suffering. "To us and those like us, damn few left! Hooah!"

ebelen1

Point taken. I thought what MADE Toyota in the U.S. was the combo of cheap cars that last a ton longer than domestic vehicles during the time that gas prices were skyrocketing and big V8s were the thing in the U.S. I guess we have different viewpoints.

The only "real" sportscar Toyota made was the last Supra that is way more popular today than when it came out 10 years ago. If Supras were that popular 10 years ago, it wouldn't have been discontinued.

Flamedx4

Nah, they have never been cheap.
In 1984 a base model 4runner stickered at 12k, a Deluxe at 14k, a loaded SR5 at 19k.
IN 1984 a base S10 (cough cough) Blazer was $9999 and fully loaded was $14k.
Same price range for Cherokees, a loaded Cheif V6 4x4 power everything carried a 14k sticker.

Toyotas have always represented value - but not lower prices. Value in how well they were built - that 1985 SR5 4Runner I bought is still on the road today - I put 240k miles on it myself and still got good money for it when I sold it. That 85 Cherokee I almost bought probably only barely out lasted the warranty. The S10 was a rattle trap at 40k miles. And neither of them would even begin to go where the 4Runner went, let alone without breaking something...

Toyotas are still more expensive today. Price the comparable American trucks and SUVs - Yotas cost more. Guess what killed the Supra? The Fifty THousand Dollar price tag. We just could not bring ourselves to pay more for a Toyota than a Corvette..

rockota

Not to sound argumentative, but my first 86 DLX came with a window sticker - <$12K. i think your numbers are pretty high.

I have to disagree - the fullsize Toy's are cheaper than a Cheby, Ford or Dodge. I priced them in '03 and the Limited Tundra we purchased, with every option available but the 17" wheels, was just a hair over $30K. Couldn't touch that in a "domestic" truck...

rockota

I disagree. The additional $3-4K from the factory for an S/C model wouldn't have sold any, especially once you add the Premium fuel requirement into the mix. Yeah, people would have considered it, but it's a true "tuner" item and not one that the avg. person would opt for at that price. Especially when the list for a DoubleCab was in the 28K range.

Flygtenstein

I met with the real cats that are on the next go for the Runner.

One gentleman got down on his hands and knees begging for a solid axle. One asked about dual stock factory lockers. Those of us who were realistic laughed.

We were lucky to get a runner with a locker until 2000. Lockable Taco's and 100's are still out there.

The engineers were talking bigger and unibody. That is what the public is telling them. How many of you will buy a brand new Toyota in the next 3 years anyway? Let alone one that you plan to use abusively off road like a Rubicon.

Not too darn many. This is not a knock though. Most Toyota owners are practical and frugal. This is not consistent with a 40k rock truck.

One locker, 33's and some sliders get most people into feeling like they are wheeling. Any more than that and things get killed.

There is no market for a trail ready Toy. There is barely a market for the Rubicon, but Jeep has a niche carved. The Toyota niche is well done rigs for everything that last a long time.

AxleIke

Some very good points have been made. i again say Toyota won't do it. No money in it

Its all about practicality. How many of you would purchase a brand new vehicle at even sticker price and take it out to bash into rocks?

you pay for the lockers/upgraded junk anyway when you buy the vehicle. If you wish a SA, it can be done pretty well for 3 to 5 grand. An upgraded "offroad/locker/axle" combo on a truck will cost at least that over base model.

Buy an early model truck that has a great body for 5 to 6k, sink 15 properly into it=20k for stronger and better than what toyota would come at you with

as a side note
Seal/parts replacement on leaky 80's axles-grand to 2 grand at a shop near my house, vehcile has 2 day shop time. only about 300 to change out CV axles with shorter shop time, if you pay to have it done. Cheaper to do the IFS

kyle_22r

personally, i like trucks to ride like trucks. keeps the white collar lawyers and such from driving them in fear of spilling their latte on their business suit not like they can drink their coffee and shift a REAL transmission at the same time, either.

i've got a solid axle truck and an IFS truck. stock vs stock i've taken them into the same play areas and they both perform about equally. the IFS rig is a little more "bouncy" and seems a little more squirrely, but i think it's mainly related to it having a bench and my straight axle truck having some nice buckets that hold me in place.

on the road, the ride isn't much different, the IFS pickup soaks up little bumps somewhat better. still feels about the same when you hit a pothole.

however, the one area the IFS trucks really excel over straight axle pickups is the steering. toyota used an AWFUL setup on the straight axle with a "J arm" and drag link parallel to the leaf spring. not good for anything but bump steer, and if you put some springs capable of drooping the front axle on the driver's side, you can break steering components quick.

i'm willing to bet that most guys that wish toyota would offer a straight axle truck have never even owned one. not to say i wouldn't like to see one come out for simplicity's sake, but most see the price of a lift kit for a '79-85 and then choke on the price of a '86-up kit, and wish they could jack up their ego for 1/3 the price.

kyle_22r

that shop is a bunch of crooks then. maybe 2 days for a shadetree mechanic who doesn't know what he's doing, but it's not exactly a brain surgery job. just pull the wheels, remove the caliper, unbolt the hub cover, pull the snap ring, unbolt the hub body, pull the wheel hub, pull the spindle and birfield/inner shaft, unbolt the bearing cap and steering arm, unbolt the knuckle wiper retainer and pull of the ring, pull the knuckle and wipers, remove the inner axle seal, then repack the bearings and put it back together.

ok, so maybe not a 2 hour job. but definitely not a grand. i think i was quoted $400 labor when i first bought my straight axle truck and had no idea what i was dealing with. drove it for a few years and i'm finally getting around to that job