OneTrickToy

Why all this talk about linear and non-linear travel with the two types of springs. From what I understand, both coil springs and TB's are are the same thing. They both use torque. TB's are just easier to understand. You twist the bar end of story. Now coiled springs work the same way. You are twisting the metal bar every time weight is applied. I guess it's hard to explain, but if you look at the springs as they compress, maybe putting marks on the sides of the springs would help, you are twisting the metal with each compression. So the same equation should work for both springs.

As for the "stretching" of a spring. Shouldn't be a problem. It just depends on how much force is needed to extend the spring and how much force the weight of the front suspension can produce at droop. If you can twist the TB in one direction to compress it, then you can most definately twist it in the opposite direction to extend it.

Flamedx4

Math is one thing, but many of us have discovered that in the real world when you crank up the ride height with the tbars the ride gets harsher.

I suppose it doesn't change the spring rate (because theoretically it doesn't preload the spring?) but perhaps it affects the deflection rate somehow - which affects compliance? I can tell you that my F150 was getting a bit wallowy in the corners and I cranked up the front about 1" and it stiffened it right up, and I can tell you that I cranked down my Yota about 1" and it made a HUGE difference in compliance - it was harsh as hell and now the suspension actually soaks up some road variations and the ride is almost decent - it was amazing how big a difference it made.

OneTrickToy

You will still need an alignment even running at the same height. Because the pivot point is away from the center, anything added to the end of the A arm will change the length. Just take a 12" ruler and set it flat on the table with one end at a fixed point. Then add a mount(yes "mount") a 1.5" spacer of some sort to one side of the ruler. You need to mount it so that it is flush with the ruler to be able to see that actual change in geometry. At the same ride height there, the ball joint won't be level, it will now be on an angle. That's why you will need an alignment afterwards.

Flamedx4

Yeah, I know the geometry on steering axis inclination and caster lead and camber angle, and the spacer would change the angles but only a teenie bit. I wonder if it changes it enough to need realigned though. I suppose it comes under the heading of "better to do it and be certain..." *sigh*

mt_goat

Yes, a spring is a spring and Hooks law works fine for both if you're talking about just the spring. The diffence is how the force has to be applied to a t-bar. There has to be a lever arm to load the t-bar. And the angle of the force vector applied to the lever arm changes through the range of motion of the UCA. With a coil spring you can just sit on it to apply load to it and although not perfectly linear it is certainly closer to fitting the "ideal" spring model of Hooks law IMHO.


I agree, but I don't have enough down travel to even completely unload my t-bar much less put a reverse twist into it.

ksig4runner

ok... i read all the thread about the front of the truck with ball joint spacers... but what about the back since it is not independent suspension and has no upper or lower arms (or does ity and im wrong, its happened before) how doe that work?? or what do you do to the back to compensate for the front??

OneTrickToy

Since you've got a runner, you can add coil spacers to the rear. Those of us with trucks need either new springs, longer shackles, or lift blocks.

914runner

OneTrickToy - Got any pics of the components of your 3" lift?
Thanks

ksig4runner

oh ok where do you buy one of these set ups???

superjoe83

you could put a ball joint spacer on a taco, but it would lower it, so it looks like drop bracket, coil over/spacers, and leaf springs are the only way to lift a taco/3rd gen

mt_goat

So does the ball joint attach to the top of the UCA on a taco? I'd still like to see some pictures or maybe I'll go to the Toyota dealer and look at one.

superjoe83

the load carrying ball joint is attached to the lower control arm, so if you put a spacer in there it would lower the truck, theres not really a way to do it

elripster

I definitely appreciate all of your help. We moved out of one place a few weeks and and are moving this weekend into the new place. Also, I'm wrapping up a summer class. On the upside, I expect to have more time in the near future for little things like improving the website and putting out more products.

I'd have been online more but where the woman and I have been staying for the last few weeks has a dial up slowdem making the internet pretty slow and frustrating. As of Monday we'll be back on broadband.

Frank

mt_goat

[QUOTE=superjoe83]the load carrying ball joint is attached to the lower control arm, so if you put a spacer in there it would lower the truck, theres not really a way to do it
[QUOTE]

Yeah, I see what you mean.

OneTrickToy

Not yet. I've been meaning to take pics, but I have to borrow my girlfriends digicam. I'll try and remember to borrow it on Sunday.