LSUMatt1514

I'm going to email those pics to the manager of the Firestone store tomorrow morning. Maybe by him seeing those stick on weights, he will agree that something is wrong with that tire. I'm gonna get this resolved damn it!!

Matt

Nic

The two weights aren't even on the same portion of the wheel.

Plus, you might even have more on the inside if you looked.

LSUMatt1514

It may just be the fact that I was tired as hell on the way to work this morning, but it seems to be a bit better. I'm going to do two things this weekend before I swap out any tires.

1. Call A&R Tire and see if they used the Haweka adapter when the did the balancing on the Hunter machine.
2. Call Limabaugh Toyota and see if they do have the Haweka adapter and have them re-balance the tires if A&R didn't use this adapter.
3. Hopefully prolong the Firestone mananger. He told me yesterday that he had to know this morning if I wanted to replace them or not, but that kinda contradicts the 30 day money back guarantee.

The saga continues....

Matt

terryjmatthew

I Think Both Of These Tire Places Are Full Of ˟˟˟˟˟. I Dont Have The Same Wheels As You But Are You Not Able To Use A Regular "knock-on" Weight On The Inside Of Your Wheel? It Appears To Me That They Are Counter-balancing The Weights They Are Using On The Outside W/ The Stick-on Weights. I Don't Have The Haweka Adapter And Dont Have Any Trouble W/ My "lt" Ko's. Have Them Use Standard Wheel Weights On Inside And Outside Of Wheel Flange (dynamic Balance) And I Would Be Willing To Bet You Will Be Happy!!!
My .02
-matthew

SLC Punk

That wheel has counter weights on it. I am an ex-tire tech and we would get reamed if we counter weighted wheels. All it does is fools the machine to thinking that it is in balance, which, in fact, it is not.

Have them pull all the weights off and try it again.

calg3

I agree with Travis, they HAVE to pull all the weights off the wheel-stick on and clamp on- and start from having NO weights on your wheels. Then properly balance them.

bamachem

Better yet, take it to them and WATCH them, LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDERS and make sure every weight is off. Then watch them mount the wheel on the balancer and make sure that it's seated properly. Then watch them add weights where needed. Once the weights are added, make sure they spin them again to make sure they are properly placed. Then make sure they tighten lugs ACROSS from each other and NOT in a CIRCULAR PATTERN next to each other as they torque them down.

LSUMatt1514

Well, I talked with the Firestone manager this morning and he told me that they have a brand new set of Revos waiting for me at the shop if I want to swap them. He also said that I did have 30 days to make a decision. I don't want to offend A&R Tire, so I'm going to go to Limbaugh Toyota tomorrow morning and like ya'll said, have them pull every weight off of each wheel and start over. The service manager here knows me well and I know will take care of me. I will also mention the torque pattern to them that Andy mentioned. Limbaugh has the Hunter machine (I don't know about the Haweka adapter yet, I've got to call) but I talked with A&R this morning and they did use the Haweka for a Toyota and specified that it couldn't be done without it.

I hate to put on a new set and then fight with the Firestone place over the balancing. I know that this current set has been properly road force balanced (5, 8, 9, and one 13) so I would like to keep this set if at all possible. Someone has got to be able to balance them to the "T".

Matt

bamachem

So, you already paid Firestone about $40 for the first balance job, then you paid $80 for a RF balance job, and you want to pay ANOTHER $40 for ANOTHER balance job W/O the RF machine??? WTF???

Listen, if they have been RF balanced w/ the adapter and you still get vibes, the you are wasting your money going to Limbutt. Just give me the money and I'll kick you in the balls and it will have the same effect. Go get the new revo's and have Firestone balance them. It will be fine. If not, take them back to A&R for "one last try" but don't tell them they've been replaced and you won't have to pay $80 AGAIN.

Then when they do the swap, show the Firestone guy that you even paid $80 for RF balance on the old set after he couldn't do it right the first time and ask for a refund on the balance you paid for and he couldn't deliver on.

tim spiering

Hi,
I have the same problem with the revos I can feel it in the seats and the steering wheel.
Itook the truck to the best place they got it better but it's still not right I heard toyota put out a bulleton to dealers telling them they need to use a adapter when ballancing I'm guessing they must bolt the wheel right to it?
any way,I wonder if switching to steel rims would solve this I'm thinking itS not the tires but just not being able to balance the tires on the stock rims.
they are very thick and have a large dia. hole in the middle.
Anyone try running steel rims ?

SLC Punk

You may want to PM <96 Runner> He had a set of steel wheels and couldn't get them balanced correctly. He ended up getting Discount tire to buy the wheels back and he went back to OEM Aluminum wheels.

LSUMatt1514

I'm going to go get on the interstate tonight and drive about 20 miles, and take my girlfriend with me and see what she thinks. I'm sure I'll be at the Firestone center bright and early tomorrow.

Matt

LSUMatt1514

Well, I talked with Andy (Bamachem) for awhile tonight and he really feels like the problem is a slight mis-alignment because Firestone did align the front end the same day that I had the Revos installed. I've got another thread going, but if anyone has a factory service manual for a 3rd gen, I'd like to know the recommended specs for an alignment so that I can take them in with me when I get Firestone to re-align the front end. Hopefully, that will get the problem taken care of. I described the characteristics of my vibration problem to Andy tonight, and he feels very strongly that it's an alignment issue. I'll keep ya'll posted. Later.

Matt

Mulkey

I have put 24K miles on 265/70/16 revos since 9/11/03 and only had them rotated twice and balanced when new. Small weight on the inside and small weight on the outside at a Mom and Pop tire store. Don't know which computer they used but it works. They ride good at 104 mph. I was going to mention the alignment. Firestone probably f-ed it up.

williemon

Alignment problems dont cause vibrations. They cause pulling and skewed steering. What you have is one or more out of round tires. Not uncommon for bridgstone or many other brands. Michelins have been about the trueist round Ive seen so far myself. I had LTX ATs on my 90 for 90k miles. Very smooth. Now I have Revoes. Also very smooth. However you might need to forget about road force balanceing and all that mumbo jumbo. Just high priced "tire wheel matching" that really should be done anyway for free because its the right way to do it.

I always have mine balanced AND trued on the vehicle. Most times they are trued only once, maybe twice during their life. Thats where they shave some tread off to make the tire true round while its on the vehicle. Then they balance it while still on the vehicle. This way you have a true round tire and a balance that considers all issues. Ive done this from day one with the michelins when the shop I bought them from tried to balance them 3 times. The 3rd time was just so so and had weights all over the place. Heavy ones at that. I took it to a shop where I had my car done and they found that I had 1 out of round. To the naysayers about removing rubber and tire life, I got 90k miles from them. Contrary to belief, I dont rebalance when I rotate. I mark the relation of each wheels valvestem to hub lugs and keep that relationship throughout the front to back rotation. I only rebalance when I start to notice vibration or pulsations when brakeing. Misbalance can cause a warped rotor feeling. I have gotton to the point where I ask the price to be reduced when I buy tires because I wont have them balanced. I drive them for maybe 2 days just around town then take them to the spring and suspension shop that trues and balances them on the car.

My revoes required small weight on all 4 wheels and 3 needed trueing. My michelins I had required one trued and weight on only 1 wheel. Both sets of tires have been used on the same American eagle aftermarket rims. Shows better trueness and quality in the michelins.

I did the same thing on my car from 30k to 175k, so I have had many years of practice with this service. Speeds in my car maxed 120 to 130. The runner up to 100.

Find a shop that trues and balances on the car. I pay $4.00 per tire plus weights for balance, and $6.00 per tire for any trueing needed. They dont true them unless they are out of round. Its old school, but it works and in my opinion its the best way.

I just went back and read on gadgets site about the road force machine. My views of it may be somewhat skewed, but still, I have never needed to use it since the tire trueing and balance on the vehicle is a lot cheaper and does in fact give a glass smooth ride.

bamachem

I have had an alignment cause a vibration on an Infiniti I30 I used to own. Had brand new Michelins balanced 3 times and all three times I still had vibrations between 55 and 68 MPH and NOWHERE ELSE. I had requested alignment checks on my lifetime alignment, but they never did it. I finally went back and demanded to have it checked. The toe was out by about 1.5*. Fixed it and never had any problems w/ the vibration after that. You tell me what it was if it wasn't the alignment...

AgRunner06

I've also heard that alignment can't cause vibration. I'm having a vibration that comes and goes. After multiple times of balancing, I had my alignment checked. Everything was good except for my toe which I knew was off because of my tire wear. The toe was adjusted and the vibration is still there.

Personally I like williemon's idea of having the tire trued and balanced on the vehicle. Does anyone know of a place that does this or do I have to find some mom and pop shop and have it done there?

Could you elaborate on this a little more? I don't quite understand what exactly you are doing.

Thanks

:bounce2:

williemon

I cant comment on the exact issue of the Infiniti, but I have had alignment woes cause wobbles and occelations(forgive the spelling). Theres a difference between those and vibrations though, although sometimes its hard to tell.

The way I mark the relationship of valvestem to lugs is after a trueing and balance, I remove the 2 lugnuts that are on each side of the valvestem when you eyeball it. I apply a little bright paint to the lug stud top. I do this on each wheel. Then when I pull the wheel off for inspection, I make sure the stem always falls between the paint topped studs when I put the wheel back on. The same when I rotate them. The valvestem on the front tire, will be placed between the painted studs on the rear axel and so on. I know a pureist would say that in the event of a rotation, the actual trueness of a front wheel now being on a rear axel is in question, but so far I have never had an issue with that causing any vibration on my runner. So why do it at all? Makes me feel better. My car on the other hand, when I would do that, would have a very slight pulse when braking only. When Id rotate once again after 6k miles, and the tires were in the origional true and balance axel, smooth as glass.

LSUMatt1514

Well, here's the latest update. I went back to the Firestone service center this afternoon to have them check the alignment. The manager insisted on "spinning" the tires on his balancing machine (a Coates) first before performing the alignment. I could tell that he really did not think that the alignment was the issue. Well, they proceed to spin the first two and guess what, both show to be out of balance. Keep in mind I'm standing there the whole time, and had been for twenty minutes up to that point talking through different scenarios that may be causing this. Well, low and behold, guess who walks up and starts talking to us. The Birmingham area Hunter Engineering rep. He was at their shop looking at one of their mounting machines. He impressed me within a couple of minutes. He played around with two of my tires and did some measuring and low and behold guess what he tells the manager and the assistant manager....Ya'll cannot balance these tires because of the exact reason that Gadget describes on his site. To say the least, they were both very, very embarrassed. So, we put the tires back on the truck and the manager tells me that he feels the cause of the vibration is the fact that these Revos are 265/75/16, whereas my H/Ls were 265/70/16 and that the inch difference in height was the problem. I told him I did not buy that at all, that I knew way too many people (Thank you Yotatech) who were running these same size tires on 3rd gen 4Runners with no vibration. Well, they finally check the alignment. It's dead on. However, while I was watching the alignment being performed, I continued to talk with the Hunter rep. He talked with me for about an hour trying to diagnose this. He even knows the guys at the shop that did my road force balance and highly recommended them and also agreed that my road force numbers (5, 8, 9, and 13) were very low and very good. The long and the short of the matter is that I will be going back to A&R tomorrow and have the tires put on the Hunter machine again. Here's what the rep told me to tell them to check...

1. Do a centering check
2. Remove the stick on weights on the inside of the one wheel and put this weight on the perimeter of the wheel where the other weight is
3. Use the Hunter machine to check for a 2nd harmonic.

Apparently, the ususal road force numbers that we are all used to are the 1st harmonic. There is another button, or mode, on the Hunter machine that will allow them to check for a 2nd harmonic and correct it. So, the saga continues and it's off to A&R tomorrow. Thanks for the help guys. I'll keep you posted.

Matt

bamachem

Good freaking grief. Did the manager think you're a total idiot? Ya, another 1/2" of tread height will cause vibration. I HATE ˟˟˟˟ING IDIOTS LIKE HIM. He should lose his job for actually telling something so obvioulsy ignorant to a customer with a problem. Typical though, he's trying to put the problem back on you instead of on himself or his tires. BTW, since the Hunter rep told him that they can't be balanced there and the manager believed him, did the manager refund the $40 you paid him to get them balanced?