CO - Bunce School Rd trail repair day 4/14
04-09-2007, 08:02 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
CO - Bunce School Rd trail repair day 4/14
A landowner along Bunce School Rd is upset about damage to his barbed wire fence.
http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=91802
We'll be going up there at 9:45 on Saturday. A large showing would make a point. The landowner and the Deputy Sherrif investigating the case will be there.
http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=91802
We'll be going up there at 9:45 on Saturday. A large showing would make a point. The landowner and the Deputy Sherrif investigating the case will be there.
04-09-2007, 08:31 PM
#3
Contributing Member
Just so you all are aware: Here is the email I sent to the Sheriff that I talked to today after he requested a voluntary statment.
Dear Deputy ******,
On March 24th 2007 we ran Bunce School Road CR 105 with a few fellow offroading enthusiasts. We started at 10:00 AM from the Bunce School Parking lot. Several miles in, my truck hit something in the road, the rear driver side tire went flat and then slid 1 foot off the road and we had to work to change the tire. We found all these fence stakes just sticking in the snow. We found that my tire popped because we ran over one that had fallen down into the road and was hidden in the snow. While we were fixing my truck we also moved the stakes that were just propped in the snow (many of them leaning over into the road - and one buried) to the side of the trail under a tree where they would do no more vehicle damage and could also be easily found by whoever had initially propped them in the snow. That was the only change to this persons land we had made. Moving these unanchored stakes to a central location under a tree so that no one else would run over them if they fell over.
The next weekend (Saturday 3/31/07) We decided to run the trail again. There was a group of us that met at 10:30 at the Bunce School parking lot. When we were running the trail we ran into someone fixing the stakes at the noted location. I stopped to talk with him. He told me he was the land owner. He asked if we had been up there the previous weekend and I told him we had been and that we had a little trouble at this spot from the snow and stakes. I told him our group was the one who moved the unanchored stakes from the weekend before. (Because of the danger reasons). He did not seem upset - and he seemed to understand. I offered to have our group stop and help. (He declined). He told me he had placed the stakes in the snow to prevent snowmobiles from driving all over the place (Because there was an open field on the other side). We each moved on with a nice wave.
Today 4/09/07 I get a call from one of the guys who was on the trail with us. A land owner (Mr. H) is upset that some off road vehicle ruined his fence. Now I know it was not us because this land owner said it was a barbed wire fence - and the fence we had issues with had no barbed wire attached - only stakes that were placed in the snow - they were not even in the ground. Mr H reported the damage to his land to the Boulder County Sheriff, who tracked down one of our group based on pictures posted on Colorado4x4.org placing our trucks on Bunce School road - the weekend the damage happened. I left a message with the sheriff (Deputy *****) and with Mr. H on 4/09/07. I did talk with Deputy ****** and told him I would give a voluntary statement to the issue. I also told him that irregardless of who really caused the problem, our group was willing to help the land owner who filed the claim, make things right.
We are planning to meet at 9:45 on Saturday April 14th at the Bunce School Parking lot. Deputy ******* and Mr. H should be joining us. Hopefully we can show the land owner that we take the tread lightly premise in 4 wheeling very seriously and even if we were not at fault - we are willing to do what we can to set things right with the land owner to show that many 4 wheelers are serious about these issues.
Best regards,
Molly *******
Dear Deputy ******,
On March 24th 2007 we ran Bunce School Road CR 105 with a few fellow offroading enthusiasts. We started at 10:00 AM from the Bunce School Parking lot. Several miles in, my truck hit something in the road, the rear driver side tire went flat and then slid 1 foot off the road and we had to work to change the tire. We found all these fence stakes just sticking in the snow. We found that my tire popped because we ran over one that had fallen down into the road and was hidden in the snow. While we were fixing my truck we also moved the stakes that were just propped in the snow (many of them leaning over into the road - and one buried) to the side of the trail under a tree where they would do no more vehicle damage and could also be easily found by whoever had initially propped them in the snow. That was the only change to this persons land we had made. Moving these unanchored stakes to a central location under a tree so that no one else would run over them if they fell over.
The next weekend (Saturday 3/31/07) We decided to run the trail again. There was a group of us that met at 10:30 at the Bunce School parking lot. When we were running the trail we ran into someone fixing the stakes at the noted location. I stopped to talk with him. He told me he was the land owner. He asked if we had been up there the previous weekend and I told him we had been and that we had a little trouble at this spot from the snow and stakes. I told him our group was the one who moved the unanchored stakes from the weekend before. (Because of the danger reasons). He did not seem upset - and he seemed to understand. I offered to have our group stop and help. (He declined). He told me he had placed the stakes in the snow to prevent snowmobiles from driving all over the place (Because there was an open field on the other side). We each moved on with a nice wave.
Today 4/09/07 I get a call from one of the guys who was on the trail with us. A land owner (Mr. H) is upset that some off road vehicle ruined his fence. Now I know it was not us because this land owner said it was a barbed wire fence - and the fence we had issues with had no barbed wire attached - only stakes that were placed in the snow - they were not even in the ground. Mr H reported the damage to his land to the Boulder County Sheriff, who tracked down one of our group based on pictures posted on Colorado4x4.org placing our trucks on Bunce School road - the weekend the damage happened. I left a message with the sheriff (Deputy *****) and with Mr. H on 4/09/07. I did talk with Deputy ****** and told him I would give a voluntary statement to the issue. I also told him that irregardless of who really caused the problem, our group was willing to help the land owner who filed the claim, make things right.
We are planning to meet at 9:45 on Saturday April 14th at the Bunce School Parking lot. Deputy ******* and Mr. H should be joining us. Hopefully we can show the land owner that we take the tread lightly premise in 4 wheeling very seriously and even if we were not at fault - we are willing to do what we can to set things right with the land owner to show that many 4 wheelers are serious about these issues.
Best regards,
Molly *******
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04-10-2007, 10:01 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
I don't know - we will be repairing a barbed wire fence. I don't know if the posts are torn up or just the wire is gone.
I would assume a heavy sledge would be good and some way to tension the wire.
I would assume a heavy sledge would be good and some way to tension the wire.
04-10-2007, 11:44 AM
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I talked to the land owner this morning and he has extra T-post and Barb-wire. I am bringing out 2 T-Post ponders and if you all bring sledges and/or big hammers that would be good as well
04-11-2007, 05:44 AM
#12
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So what confuses me - is why did he say he didn't need any help when I asked him the day I saw him? It just seems a little odd is all... I won't press it though.
04-11-2007, 06:12 AM
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no idea Molly. I'm just glad he's cool about it. I should have a few folks from our club coming to join us... I still need to get a silly CB. I'm waiting on the one I ordered to get here.
04-11-2007, 03:24 PM
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true but i saw wire in the ground, not near the tires but it was in the ground none the less just sitting there, I think a group ahead of us maybe a couple days before did that. and thats maybe what hes upset about.
04-11-2007, 03:26 PM
#17
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Probably. I think we all know we really had nothing to do with this but because they founs our pictures they went after us - and so we'll go make it right. Not a big deal.
Hey Matt - I'll bring that hand held CB for ya.
Hey Matt - I'll bring that hand held CB for ya.
04-11-2007, 07:38 PM
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Wish I could come help. That area is really cool. I work that day. Let me know if I can help with anything else. Oh, and if it makes the owner feel better let him know about the custom "kiss" mark I got from his post.
04-12-2007, 05:06 AM
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I should write the deputy something like this.
On (have to get the date before writing this) myself and 3 other trucks ran this trail. We were stopped shortly in to it by a guy who had claimed he got there at 9am.From the looks of his truck bed he had been drinking the whole time he was sitting there including the time he was talking to us. He proudly showed off his gun that he claimed was for the people who drove off trail. He claimed that he was a land owner and the down the trail where its marked is his. After reading the Times call i believe it is Mike Haggerty he talked about his plans to build a house in the next few years. We continued on to be stopped by a 15foot snow drift. We turned around and were planning on leaving. We found Mr Haggerty stuck and being winched through a snowy part of the trail.
We stopped to see if we could help get him free and ask about what looked to be another trail. He said "its a good trail,If you get a chance run it." we headed down the trail and shortly turned around due to the time. almost back to the parking lot we found 2 stuck jeeps. We pulled off to the edge and helped them get free. As the last jeep was moved Mr Haggerty pulled up and was yelling at us for going off trail. I quickly spoke up and said that we had even asked if that was a trail we could run and he had said yes and we should run it. everything was dropped after that and was fine. He walked back to his truck to grab yet another beer and watch everyone go through the snow.
2trucks made it no problem and the 3rd was stuck. while he was being pulled out one of the jeeps that was with the other group pulled slightly off trail to make room for passing rigs. As he did that Mr Haggerty ran accross the trail with his hand on his gun yelling and screaming at the guy. He explaind what he was doing and that he didnt do any damage to the trail and if he did he was going to fix it.
The yelling went on and the gun kept coming out(this is not on his property) the owner of the jeep moved it back on trail and made sure that everything was ok. He had moved a few rocks parking and while he was fixing it Mr Haggerty came to help but while helping started yelling and screaming again. He threw his shovel in the back of his truck and grabbed his camera taking a pic of the jeep and my truck. I tried to ask why he was taking pics of my truck but him and the jeep owner were still going at it. I suggested to another guy with the jeep group that it would be a good idea to gather up all of the kids that were no older then 12 and take them down with the group. We stepped inthe middle of everything and said The guy in the jeep was out of line and said he was sorry,even repairing what damage had happened from his parking. One of the guys from his group came over and got them calmed down. we load up and get ready to go and as were getting in the truck Mr Haggerty started in again.
I suggested that everyone take off cause it was clear he was way to drunk to be reasoned with and i left. I did not know that you could publicly show off a hand gun.We were not on his land. I Feel like the situation could have got a lot worse if there were not all the people there. He was about 4 feet from us when we were turning to go on the other trail and could have said something but my friend noticed he didnt say anything to us or the other trucks that went in front of us because while he was being winched out he was not wearing his handgun. It has changed my whole outlook on 4wheeling and am looking in to a wepons permit to protect myself and my friends and family.
We were thinking about running the trail that day but i dont know that i want to be near that guy. Chances are he was way to drunk to remember the situation but i still have mixed feelings about the guy and his actions.
On (have to get the date before writing this) myself and 3 other trucks ran this trail. We were stopped shortly in to it by a guy who had claimed he got there at 9am.From the looks of his truck bed he had been drinking the whole time he was sitting there including the time he was talking to us. He proudly showed off his gun that he claimed was for the people who drove off trail. He claimed that he was a land owner and the down the trail where its marked is his. After reading the Times call i believe it is Mike Haggerty he talked about his plans to build a house in the next few years. We continued on to be stopped by a 15foot snow drift. We turned around and were planning on leaving. We found Mr Haggerty stuck and being winched through a snowy part of the trail.
We stopped to see if we could help get him free and ask about what looked to be another trail. He said "its a good trail,If you get a chance run it." we headed down the trail and shortly turned around due to the time. almost back to the parking lot we found 2 stuck jeeps. We pulled off to the edge and helped them get free. As the last jeep was moved Mr Haggerty pulled up and was yelling at us for going off trail. I quickly spoke up and said that we had even asked if that was a trail we could run and he had said yes and we should run it. everything was dropped after that and was fine. He walked back to his truck to grab yet another beer and watch everyone go through the snow.
2trucks made it no problem and the 3rd was stuck. while he was being pulled out one of the jeeps that was with the other group pulled slightly off trail to make room for passing rigs. As he did that Mr Haggerty ran accross the trail with his hand on his gun yelling and screaming at the guy. He explaind what he was doing and that he didnt do any damage to the trail and if he did he was going to fix it.
The yelling went on and the gun kept coming out(this is not on his property) the owner of the jeep moved it back on trail and made sure that everything was ok. He had moved a few rocks parking and while he was fixing it Mr Haggerty came to help but while helping started yelling and screaming again. He threw his shovel in the back of his truck and grabbed his camera taking a pic of the jeep and my truck. I tried to ask why he was taking pics of my truck but him and the jeep owner were still going at it. I suggested to another guy with the jeep group that it would be a good idea to gather up all of the kids that were no older then 12 and take them down with the group. We stepped inthe middle of everything and said The guy in the jeep was out of line and said he was sorry,even repairing what damage had happened from his parking. One of the guys from his group came over and got them calmed down. we load up and get ready to go and as were getting in the truck Mr Haggerty started in again.
I suggested that everyone take off cause it was clear he was way to drunk to be reasoned with and i left. I did not know that you could publicly show off a hand gun.We were not on his land. I Feel like the situation could have got a lot worse if there were not all the people there. He was about 4 feet from us when we were turning to go on the other trail and could have said something but my friend noticed he didnt say anything to us or the other trucks that went in front of us because while he was being winched out he was not wearing his handgun. It has changed my whole outlook on 4wheeling and am looking in to a wepons permit to protect myself and my friends and family.
We were thinking about running the trail that day but i dont know that i want to be near that guy. Chances are he was way to drunk to remember the situation but i still have mixed feelings about the guy and his actions.
Last edited by vwfastg60; 04-12-2007 at 05:09 AM.
04-12-2007, 05:40 AM
#20
Contributing Member
Russel, PM sent with the Deputy's email. This concerns me because it sounds like this landowner is on a witch hunt - and we need the cops to know that he is more problematic than we are - since he will likely file more claims in the future! I don't want to cause a rucus, but to have your voluntary statement on file as well as mine will help clear the name of 4 wheelers for sure!
