Newf wit a Toy

Hi all,

With all due respect I've searched a few threads but think I need to explain my symptoms.

I'm trying to determine if I need to do the valve seals on my 86' 22re 4X4 pickup. Since the last oil change (3k) I went through 1.5 quarts of oil. I ran synthetic 10/30. There are no visible leaks so I did a compression test and got 180psi on all cylinders. It doesn't seem to be smoking much but when wiping the tailpipe with a rag it looks black and very thick. There is no Catalytic convert either but I replaced the muffler a month ago as well as the 02 sensor. The spark plugs look nice and tan color.

Can I assume that it is the valve seals and proceed to pull the head for a valve job? Or should I try and use a seal regenerator and see how that goes first? This truck did sit for a couple of years. If so, can anyone recommend a brand for me? Also, would a leak down test pinpoint the valve seals as the culprit? Just to give you all a heads up I'm In Canada so with winter coming up to -22F I just put a high milage 5/30 synthetic blend in the engine.

As an extra I was thinking of doing the timing chain,guide and tensioner as well, seeing I don't know the maintenance history (six months with me) and its @ 135,000 miles. Is that a wise thing to do as I may have the head off anyways?

I look forward to any advise you may have for me. Thanks in advance,

Canuckle Head Joe

mountaingoat

Didn't the '86 22RE have a double row timing chain? If so, I'd tend to think it's fine. But if you do pull the head, why not do it? It's not much more money or work.

I'd say you're probably right about the valve seals being the culprit. Have you considered doing them with the head still on? It's a pretty easy job, just hook up a compressor to the cylinder that you're working on to keep the valve from dropping, and you're golden. It took me about 3 hours the first time around, and only that long because I dropped one of the damn keepers down an oil passage.

Newf wit a Toy

If I'm not mistaken Toyota changed the double row chain in 83. I don't have the start up rattle that indicates a worn chain guide but I have had that happen to me on my 90 Nissan D21 pickup resulting in a lost motor.

On the Valve job, I have considered doing it without removing the head, if others have been successful I think I may go that route. In any event I'll see what's involved in doing a leak test or is that a mute point considering how much oil I'm consuming.

Thanks for the response,

Canuckle head Joe

snobdds

The leakdown test will only tell you if your rings are bad. You are correct that the 86 does not have a dual row timing chain.

If I was in your shoes, I would pull the head, get a new timing set in there, put a new head gasket in, and rebuild the head. It's a good weekend project if you have all the parts and know how to do valves.

Anytime a motor sits that long, the valve seals will dry out.

Newf wit a Toy

Besides a spring compression tool for the valves, which I could probably borrow, I think I have all the stuff I need to pull the head. Are there any other specialty tools that I may need to do the seals?? I've pulled heads and done the gaskets, also swapped engines in my 90 D21 pickup. But I haven't had the luxury of doing valve seals. I do know one thing, the block shop down the road that quoted me $800 to do a valve job on a single four cylinder head will be waiting till hell freezes over before it shows up.

Any pointers that anyone has that may save me from screwing ˟˟˟˟ up are appreciated. I do have a Haynes manual but I'm not a fan of that particular brand of repair manual.

Also, has anyone pulled a head on this engine without removing the intake manifold altogether? I will do it if necessary, I don't like cutting corners that could lead to other unwarranted problems.

Thanks again,

Canuckle Head Joe

Newf wit a Toy

Got a bluepoint spring compressor tool and a 0-1" outside mic to check valve stems. A mechanic friend says there should be no wiggle in the guide. If so he says off to a machine shop. Timing chain set and head gasket are sittin at the store for me to pick up after work. All said and done I'm looking at about $250. Not too shabby. Wish me luck and I'll post any updates to the head rebuild as I go. Thanks for the tips all, and if your interested in a good old laugh (truck related) google "Truck Got Stuck" by Canadian Country singer Corb Lund. Heads comin off this weekend, yahoo... Back in the black goo..


Cheers,

Canuckle Head Joe

Hadmatt54

You will also need a puller for the harmonic balancer in order to get to the crank gear to remove the old chain and install the new one.

Newf wit a Toy

Awesome, I knew that there was something I was leaving out. Will a standard puller work and should I, or rather do I need any kind of puller/tool to remove the sprocket gears?? Is it recommended that I change these as they are with the timing chain kit.

Thanks and have a great weekend!

Newf wit a Toy

Any one know what size bolts I would need for the Puller to take out the harmonic balancer?? I'm guessing metric but not sure what size.

Cheers, Joe

Newf wit a Toy

7 hrs in and I'm just pulling the intake manifold then the head. So far so good, I haven't drawn blood but the impact helps with that. I 'm slow but painfully labeling and bagging everything as I pull it off.

If I get the head off and No 1 piston isn't exactley flush with the top of the block should I leave it or bring it up? I'm changing the sprockets too.

Thanks,

Canuckle head, joe

mountaingoat

What makes you think it won't be flush with the top? If you have it at TDC according to the timing marks, it should be dead on.

Also - with all due respect to the other fellow who posted, you do NOT need a puller to remove the balancer. It's a bugger to get the crank bolt off (the starter bump trick works nicely if you have a 5-speed) but once the bolt is off the balancer slides right off.

Sprocket will come off easily as well, it's not pressed on or anything.

One last detail: What brand of crank seal are you using? I ask because I used the one that came in my Engnbldr kit, and it shredded at 40k on a cold morning. Replaced it with a Toyota version for a few bucks more, and I'd probably use the Toyota one from the get-go if I did it again.

Also (this is REALLY the last detail) what are you using for a head gasket? Again, used the Rock one from the EB kit 60k ago, and it started leaking compression into the coolant recently. Just replaced it with the Yota OEM as well, worth the $48 for peace of mind.

This is not to imply that EB's kits aren't good, I've had great results with everything else that I've used from him. Those two parts (crank seal and head gasket) are just the things that I wouldn't use again, and the OEM equivalents are not that expensive.

Newf wit a Toy

It was flush with the top. That was just a what if question. I've got a Victor Reinz head gasket kit. By a company called Mahle Clevite Inc. out of Olive Branch, MS. I have no idea if it is a good brand or not. I will research a little before I put it together. I've already opened the package though so no returns. I got a sweet deal since I work for Dow Chemical as a maintenance welder I got the kit for $116, 45% off. the timing chain was about the same.

When I removed the EFI mod off the top of the intake I noticed what appeared to be oil and gas in the ports of the lower mating half. Does that jive with it being the valve seals and the culprit for the oil burning?? Also the carbon build up on the bottom of the exhaust valves looked excessive to me but I have to admit I haven't seen too many. I took some pics and was wondering where i could post them for people to look at to let me know if it looks normal or should I bring it in and have a shop do the head.

I would like to do the head myself, I have access to all the necessary speciality tools and like a challange. I also have access to a small sand blasting unit at work and was wondering what components if any that I could blast to clean up...or is that just asking for trouble. Again if there is somewhere I could post pics worth a thousand words, that would be great. I'll look around this site to see if anyone else has any posted.

One last thing, I think is was a good decision to do the timing chain and guide as I found a cracked guide when I pulled off the head. When replacing the sprockets will they automatically align due to me having placed the head at TDC or will that be tricky swapping them out??

Thanks for all the tips. 2 days in and the head is off. Not too shabby. I'm not looking for a record that's for sure, just want my Toy back and healthy, thats all.

Take care all, and I look forward to any replies,

Joe

mountaingoat

I've heard good things about the Reinz, so you should be good there. If I was going to go aftermarket that's the one I'd use.

On the gummed up intake - nah, they're all like that. Has to do with the fact that the crankcase vents to the intake, means you're going to get some oil in there. Go ahead and clean it out though, it'll run better.

By all means, do the head work yourself if you're up for it. I would have a shop check it first to see if it's warped though, it's not unusual for it to be a bit out and there's no point in putting a new gasket in there with a warped head.

You're welcome to post some pics of the valves, but I'm probably not the guy to tell you if it's normal carbon build-up. Someone else on here may be able to chime in and help.

For posting pics - you need a place to host them, Photobucket and Picasa are free and functional (Picasa is better, IMO).

There's a specific process for aligning your timing chain and upper/lower timing sprockets, I think I found it in the manual but a little Google action should turn something up too. Your new timing chain will have a different colored link that should line up with the mark on your cam sprocket, I don't recall what the procedure is for the crank side but it should be easy to find.

On the valve seals - if you get a little puff of blue smoke on takeoff, it's probably the seals. Oil leaks into the combustion chamber, and gets burned - hence the blue smoke. They aren't hard to change, and well worth it. I went from burning 3/4qt every 1k miles, to about 1/2qt every 4k.

Good luck!

Newf wit a Toy

Hi All,

I'm at a turning point where I need to make a decision on whether to drop the whole oil pan or just remove the two bolts that go into the bottom of the timing cover. I noticed a part of the existing plastic timing chain guide was cracked off about a 3/8 X 3/8 chunk actually and that pretty much guarantees that the oil pan has to be completely removed.

My question is do I have to drop the front diff to get the pan out. I'd rather not but what ever it takes I guess. The manual isn't very descriptive for this stage. It just says remove the pan.

The instuuctions at this link say I'll likely have to lower it. http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml
My truck has no lift. Does that mean remove? Or does it mean to just loosen some bolts until it drops a bit?? I'm stuck here for now. I hope someone can get back to me soon with some advice.

Thanks

Joe

Newf wit a Toy

OK, it looks like I have to seperate the front diff mounts (3) and lower the diff. but not unbolt or remove it. Does that sound right? Is there a chance that the CV axles can disengage?

mountaingoat

Wouldn't worry about the CV's. Dropping the pan and cleaning it IS the right way to do it; I didn't, but it probably would have been smart to. I'll get around to it someday.

If the CV's were to pull out (unlikely, as you're dropping the diff, not raising it) you could just pop 'em back in and go on your merry way.

Newf wit a Toy

Ok, so I had to disconnect the front diff(via U-joint) and three mount brackets and disconnect the idler arm (three bolts into the frame) and cross over shock(passenger side only and swing it out of the way), to get the oil pan out. WOW! That was nuts. Huge thanks to Mountain Goat, and you were bang on, not needing the puller for the harmonic balancer. It slid right off. as well as the sprocket. there was a bunch of cracked up plastic in the oil pan though, and the passenger side guide was snapped in half, so I'm going to reconsider putting the new timing chain kit that I bought in(plastic as well), and look for a metal backed guide. Any suggestions on where I can find one?? Finally I can start cleaning parts and slowly put things back together. I don't think I'll have the truck back on the road till next weekend though. Especially if I have to order the guide from the US. I realized that I have to put some heli-coils into the head as well due to an exhaust Man bolt being stripped. Thanks again for your help Mountain Goat and Happy Thanks Giving from Canada.

Cheers,

Joe

mountaingoat

Hey Joe, sounds like progress!

I have the metal-backed guides from Engnbldr, had a look at them at 60k miles and they look great. I'd use 'em again. Dunno if there's a Canadian equivalent for ya though.

Those manifold studs are a pain in the @$$. Glad you're doing them while you've got it off anyway, it'll save you some pain.

On that note - a lot of folks like to use new Toyota exhaust manifold nuts when they put it back together. They have a metal lock collar that tends to not lock as well after they've been off once, leading to them loosening up on you. I bought new ones this time around, but I suspect that you could just crush the outer metal collar on the old ones down a bit in a vice and get a similar benefit.

If you end up ordering parts from EB anyway - why not throw one of his cams in there? Never gong to be a better time to do it, and they make a nice difference in power. I have the 261 which I love, lots of folks like the 268 as well. Just a thought, being you're into the motor as far as you are. They aren't too spendy, either.

Newf wit a Toy

I'll definitely look into that Cam. If I go that route is there anything else I'll have to change or would it be a straight swap??

I think there is a Canadian Equiv for the metal backed guide. A friend of mine has one. Only bummer is I can't get the company discount though cause it'll be a different supplier. Oh well, I can't see me putting that plastic crap back in there. That only makes sense if you have stock in a parts company. haha.

Thanks for the heads up on the Exhaust nuts. I did 4 of the exhaust studs previously but the one was hard to get at. lower right closest to the firewall. That one didn't take. I'll find out how bad I screwed up tonight. I guess that I should do that first before I strip down the rocker assembly and make sure its salvagable. then I can bolt on the Ex Man and see if it holds a torque.

I'm going to start dismantling the head next, Thinking of pressure washing it after I get the rocker assembly off. Did you do that with yours?? Also, do you know of anything that cleans aluminum good?? Thinking of the valve cover. I was going to hose it down with brake cleaner and then use a parts solvent such as Nu Flash precision contact cleaner to finish it off. Thinking of bead blasting any steel brackets/ covers and priming/painting them with a high temp paint. seeing as I have access to one of those at work.

Well it was relatively a good tear down. now for the particulars. Keep the tips coming, its been very useful. Oh I keep seeing an ad for a complete head and rocker assy on this site for dirt cheap (couple of hundred). If it turns out that my guides are worn and it needs to get sent out I may look at this option. what do you think? Here is the link: http://www.toyotacarpart.com/default...FZAAQAodLRYVTA

Cheers,

Joe

Newf wit a Toy

Ya-Hooo! the Exhaust manifold bolted on with 33lbs of torque and I only had to replace the one Heli-coil. Now for the head rebuild. I'll get a feeler gauge from work tomorrow to check the surfaces for warpage. Got to look into where to pick up a metal backed timing guide and see about a 261 Cam. Looking forward to doin the head though. My first, so all tips welcomed. Mine is this: If one man can do it, then so can another. Good night all. Take care.

Joe