anthony1

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't defied thermal energy cause he's just supplementing it to the gasoline. He'll use less gas...that's it.

Crawdad

Are there enough tinfoil hats to go around, everyone?

Curious to see what this yields, though I'm extremely skeptical. I would love to be proven wrong, though.

hmmwv15

I'm skeptical, but the way gas is I'm tempted to try anything! Best of luck and keep us posted! I think this is the first thread I will actually subscribe to.

hross14

TC--you are a statistician

It has been awile since i hav3e heard those phrases used. I have to say though--i am glad i dont have to do REAL stat samples anymore--judgemental is easier on the mental pars.

This would be crazy if a grass roots attempt like this actually makes things happen--i.e. 30mpg or ?? I am impresse with people that try and fail versus just failing from the get-go because they never try anything!!

infiltrator

If what you are saying is right, and the government did shut this company down, I would be very very pissed at my country.

It is really funny to me that they made these things in the 70's!!!
Imagine if we started that kind of technology back then what would we have now! We would have full on hydrogen machines with little to no cost for fuel, and they would probably be freaking quick too!

tc

Actually, I'm a Quality Manager, but certified as a Six Sigma Black Belt for this kinda stuff, using data to make decisions.

eric_the_red

Excellent work Renofox, keep at it!

Look up Roy McAlister if you haven't heard of him. He is the president of the American Hydrogen Association. Search "engine fundamentals" on youtube. In a series of 10 vids, he starts off with IC engine basics 101, alot of which I am sure you and many people here on this great forum know, then starts to explain conversion to alternative fuels. He seems to think that we can use existing, already manufactured, IC engines more efficiently.

Anyway, I am researching this and if I find any useful info or anything that might help I will definetely post it.

www.fuel-saver.org is a good forum if you've never been

eric_the_red

Dude, you and me both.

We should be leading the world in renewable and alternative energy technology! This stuff ain't rocket surgery! Or is it....(j/k)

Everything costs something though, but I think I know what you mean.

Ghostduck

First and foremost, I too am looking into this project as well. I was actually elated to discover that someone is attempting it on a 3VZE.

Next. HHO assist is possible, and is something that has been proven many times over that it is in fact possible. Running on HHO alone however is an IMPOSSIBILITY.

HHO and/or Brown's Gas are both trademarked names (although they are chemically the exact same thing.) The differences in the patents are the exact processes in which they created.

A study done by the Jet Propulsion Lab in California using Yull Brown's models, data and findings confirmed that the process of creating the gas is real, effective, and efficient, or should I say more efficient than in previous electrolysis models, and current Hydrogen production procedures. The differences of Hydrogen produced in a Production plant, and that of Electrolysis is as follows. Hydrogen in a Production plant is Di-atomic. Meaning that when hydrogen is extracted from whatever it has two atoms of hydrogen that create one molecule or H2. Hydrogen from Electrolysis is unique in that it is Mon-atomic, something that is not normally found or H1.

H2 is more efficient than a molecule of Gasoline, because for it to burn, the two Hydrogen atoms need less energy to separate them to combine with Oxygen. A Gasoline molecule has to separate Nitrogen, Carbon, Hydrogen in any number of configurations before it can do this. A Brown's gas Hydrogen molecule is more efficient than an H2 one because it is already separated, thus it has already usable energy.

Now here's where it gets interesting. The Propulsion lab found that Brown's gas is unique in that when the flame is produced, it is not creating an explosion, but rather a series of IMPLOSIONS! The implosions allow the gas to burn at a much safer temp than that of H2 or even other types of gasses.

While browns gas can be used to supplement gasoline, propane, or CNG in a combustion engine, It cannot be used as a sole metod of fuel to operate it. A combustion engine requires an explosion, something of which Brown's gas on its own does not produce.

Sorry for the Novel

Also one of the reasons why you typically don't see this stuff, is because of the controversy surrounding the proprietary rights of the patents. Yull Brown (Browns Gas) and Dennis Klein (HHO) both have claim to those names specificly as stated in their patents... however... they are chemically the same thing. It would be like having two of the exact same cars but withone being made in a plant in Detroit, and the other in Japan and then putting different brand names on each of them and selling them across the street from eachother. (Kinda like the Ford Ranger and the Mazda B3000 except you don't have cooperation or association between the two.)

Ghostduck

Renofox..

Instead of moving the battery, I suggest that you look into one of the Bob Boyce designs for the electrolizer. While the designe and cost of the system will be more advanced, it also creates some safety features, as well as more compact methods of creating the system.

tc

Linky to something that actually says JPL on it that reports what you quote above (ie not from one of these websites that could just be saying that to try and con you into the deal).

As for proof, I have yet to see any actual DATA. I see a lot of CLAIMS, but no real DATA.

linuxrunner

Yesterday i bought a liter of water, it cost me $1.50. If my mental math is right then that's about $5.60 a gallon.

Personally i am glad my car does not run on water.

Ghostduck

Done.

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/...sti_id=5206481

This link references the actual document that you are requesting.. Note that it was submitted in the 1970's. If you want the full document, you will have to order it, or check with your local University library to see if they have it archived.

D.J. Cerini (who's name appears on the paper) was an employee at the Jet Propulsion Lab at the California Institute of technology.

boudreaux

Reno, have been researching to add an HHO generator to my '06 tacoma. how are you controlling the air/fuel mixture? I've seen both the wideband controllers and tuning module. Seems like the tuning module is the way to go if you want to be able to turn the system on/off.

tc

On an '06? Isn't it still under warranty? Why give someone a reason to hassle you and deny a claim?

boudreaux

i wish it was....unfortunately when you drive 70 miles/day roundtrip the warranty doesn't last long...but hey, it's yota tuff. i get 25-26 mpg, and if i can get more all the better. the hho generator can be designed to be reversible, and harmless if properly setup.

Ravagin

Love this topic of discussion!!! I have been "playing" with Solar and Hydrogen for a little over a year now and am to the point of installing a system into my 86 yota 4x4, it is a EFI 22r engine.

My question is where should I input the hydrogen?

I don't beleive my truck has a O2 sensor in the exhaust and the repair book says I can adjust the fuel/air mixture leaner if needed.

Reno, How goes your project to date?

Thanks for any help!!!

RiNkY

Is there a reason why the gas in most of these devices appears to be generated and/or stored in Glass jars? Is it so that they DO break easily in the event of an accident and the gas vents away?

Surprised Billy Mays isn't selling these things on a TV Infomercial if any company actually wanted to commercially make them and put their neck on the line liability wise.

jamima

Funny you say that I was a skeptic my self seeing people building them out of mason jars. I have maid nine different hho generators. All worked. But after twelve hundred dollars and six months of working on it. I made one that jumped my mpg from 17mpg to 21mpg. In my straight six 95 land cruiser automatic. And it also has 3" bigger tires then stock. And no I'm not getting my data from my odometer. I have a on board Garmin GPS that track the distance I travel. So scam or no scam it works for me!

tc

Post up the data, tank by tank please!