aviator

Oh IK all about the peak/rms thing... I'm planning on adding a 4ch amp as the next thing when I change my rears over to matching JL6.5Cs. Probably going to have a little 8" sub box as well. I don't need much bass in the small xtra cab as compared to a runner. I just want to fill out the bottom end not shake the mud off lol...
Thanks for the info. chopper.

NYChopshop

most stereos that run 3 pairs of RCA cables for front, rear, and sub channels, they often have a built in high pass crossover for the four channels and a low pass for the sub channels. Also, often enough amps have the filtering options built in. That being said, its still a good idea to get the bass blockers for smaller diameter speakers like the 4"ers because they wont require the same cutoff frequency as, say, 6 1/2" speakers.

Avoiding all those problems altogether, I opted to get a head unit that has the frequency filtering as a selectable option. When I finally get some spare cash and step my speaker-game up a level, it will be to the tune of a JL audio 4 channel amp, MB quart 4" components with a 6.5" add-a-woofer (basically they have a setup to wire a 6.5" driver with separate crossover up to a 4" component set, and get better performance and similar wattage handling to a 6.5" component set), and a 6.5" component set for the rear. I won't be putting a very high bass blocking filter on them, and I'm quite sure I'll be doing it through an adjustable external Equalizer so I can determine the propper frequency exactly at which to drop the bass out. I want to get the lowest possible midbass out of my speakers before distortion or any other loss of sound quality.

For 4" speakers on their own, whether you keep them linked to the head unit or get a more powerful outboard amp to run them, could ultimately benefit from the correct in-line filter because of the simplicity, cost, and usual durability of the things. Their usefulness is pretty much limited to the 4" speakers in my opinion tho.

For the truck, what I would do, personally, is get a 4" component set for the front, and a 6 1/2" component set for the rear. 8" bass tube or some such would be nice, but I prefer a 10" powered sub for a small bit of bass, like the infinity basslink or the MTX thunderlink or so depending on what I could fit where. I would secure a nice 6 1/2" spaced hole in my doors and mount the JL audio 6" subs. I had a 91 GMC s-15 jimmy and cut 6 1/2" holes in the doors for a pair of kicker RMB6's, and that was find and dandy for a good long while, but I would honestly love more midbass than even those without stepping up to 8" diameter speakers. I would power the whole 4 channels of components and 2 JL subs off of a 5-channel amplifier like the one from memphis car audio or somesuch quality brand in order to save space, and run the self-powered sub off of the RCA outputs on the 5-channel amplifier to get the subs dedicated to low powered excursion and let the JL's handle the midbass like a CHAMP! Wattage goes to taste, of course, and you need to consider how much volume you are going to be expecting out of your system when you choose your speakers.

The best pieces of advise I can give on system installs are as following, and some may be obvious as sin to most, but bare with me: Make sure you run power wires through rubber grommets in the firewall and never run them through raw drilled out holes, I found mine behind the passenger side of the dashboard. Prevents the stupidest fire and total loss of a vehicle you are likely to suffer, my buddy lost an audi A6 to fire over a badly wired DVD player. Soundproofing is the most bang for the buck you can get for your vehicle's stereo. If you block out the exterior noise, its just that much easier for your stereo to get the good stuff to your ears. Some seem skeptical, but I swear by it as a sound engineer. Dynamat Xtreme is my best friend (until I have to try to clean it out from under my fingernails) in automotive stereo installs, and I've been loyal for the better part of a decade! Get a capacitor for any amplifiers 1000 watts or over. Not only will your sound be better, but your lights wont dim when your stereo is blasting and make you feel like... well... like something not good - I say! Speaker positioning is NOT an afterthought. Subs don't have to be anywhere looking at you, because real bass is omnidirectional. The JL audio 6's don't need to be pointed at you so much because they're really basically subs. Tweeters on the other hand... That's why I love component speaker sets so much. Don't skimp in terms of the actual wires you run. The less you spend, the less you get - and although I've been happy with discount store amp wiring kits for very small-potatoes systems, I would recommend getting anything from a company like monster cable before getting a wal-mart branded 1000-watt stereo kit.

NYChopshop

This applies much more to my design of a 4runner system than of a pickup system, but I spoke to one of my friends that installed a similar style system to what I've been talking about, with the 2 pairs of 6.5" components (or one set and a pair of 6x9's in his case) and a pair of JL audio W3 6" subs. He recommended this amplifier, and from what I can see, the price is right for that much sound power (or at least on paper) and I know his sound system romps. The ALPHASONIK PMZ12005A. I didn't know the brand myself, but the 'ol ear test proves to me that that amp can do the job and then some. He also installed 2 12" subs and a nice fat amp, but hes into extremely bassy music. I think if you add a small self powered sub that wont break the bank, $200 ish for the JLs, $150 for the amp, and then whatever 6.5" speakers you want... Bigger subs too if you want them, but not necessary for good quality sound with the JLs.

toyotarunner92

i put 6.5 in the doors... the speakers fit in the bottom like the above picture... but the leads beeded to be turned the other way so they are mounted upside down... it sounds and works great although i do want to get some dynomat...

it can be done... just took some trial and error

NYChopshop

right, but you could have gotten yourself a set of angled spacers like have been shown above and not even been close on space tolerances. It gives you some standoff from the door, and it points the speaker towards the listener. Good stuff. I'm glad to hear you could make it work anyhow.

When I dynamat doors, I usually put a layer on the inside of the door skin itself and on the inside of the door frame wherever it doesnt interfere with power window or lock operation. Some cars even have room for some dynamat between the trim panel and the door metal itself, like my buddy's old accord, but I cant say one way or another about our toyotas. Moral of the story - the more Dynamat you can shove in that thing without showing or hindering functional worky-bits, the better!

aviator

My door set up has a dynasorb tile immediately behind the 6.5 speaker location, rubberized asphalt spray over the entire outer door skin, and Bquiet over the entire inner door frame except for cut outs for the door wires/levers and speaker. The door closes with a pleasing "thunk" instead of a "clank" and the road noise is greatly reduced.
Can't say what effect it had on speaker sound yet as I'm holding off installing until I rebuild the door panels (not happy with first time results) again.

Mic09dcsm

Is it just me or are these post extraneous? I mean, they're just speakers in a door.

aviator

Just speakers in a door?!... nothing is just speakers in a door... there are many considerations if you want to maximize the quality of your aural experience...
Door speakers are one of the most difficult installs because you are mounting the speaker in an oversize hollow metal space with the speaker basket possibly attached to a floating surface (the inner door skin). These factors create all kinds of problems with dynamic movement, temperature variance, moisture, environmental noise, back wave attenuation, power handling, door mechanics... just to start with.
This is no "small" project lol...

NYChopshop

is it just me, or was that post extraneously obnoxious? I'm not telling you that you have to appreciate good sound, or that you would want to get the best sound for the money out of the stereo in your toyota, but I do. Unlike kickpanel enclosures, and the dash speakers, the door speakers are actually a modification requiring some measure of thought. If you dont plan on installing door speakers, or dont understand why, keep it to yourself.

Texas91Runner

I'm running some Stinger SGJ94 1.2KHz high-pass filters for my 4" BA's; 6dB/octave. Just pop them inline with your positive signal line right before the speaker.
Stinger SGJ94 @ hifisoundconnection.com

Mic09dcsm

I'm saying because I already installed door speakers in my pickup. They sound great. Unless you're buying Focal or Infinity components the set up I think at least isn't that important. You're speakers only have so much potential. And as far as mounting, it isn't that serious. Now dynamat and whatnot is, but as far as CUTTING A CIRCULAR HOLE it isn't that serious. Just put it in a logical place and go.

Texas91Runner

EXACTLY. This is a real difficult project; you must consider the perfect position of the speaker to clear the internals of the door panel (both for practicality and aesthetics), the height of the spacers to clear the folding seats, while maintaining excellent sound quality and projection.

Texas91Runner

I personally don't see a problem with strategic planning. I'd like a near-professional look AND smooth sound. The majority of any component sets can sound incredible with the proper installation--just what I am going for, but with a 2-way woofer handling 50 watts RMS. These Pioneers are near top-of-the-line Pioneer Premiers being run by an Alpine amplifier, and I plan to push them to their full potential.

Texas91Runner

This topic mainly streamed on to a different tangent of discussion as well, beginning with the installation of door speakers and leading to discussion of brands and audio tweaking techniques.

NYChopshop

Now that's a lot more intelligible of an argument. To a small extent you are correct, in that you need to have quality in every part of your system in order to get high quality sound. I disagree that you need to buy one of those two brands in order to get a good quality or that which speakers you buy is as important as how you use them. Its more important that you match the power of your system to the volume you like to listen at, and match the speakers and amplifiers to those requirements. You don't have to pour thousands of dollars into your system. If your system at listener position and optimal volume looks like a dead person's EKG on a 20-20 frequency response graph, you wont ever miss for anything in your music. In order to hear your music, you just need to have a stereo and some speakers IN A HOLE and some wires in between. If you turn it on and the speakers put out sound, there's a good chance you'll hear it. If you want to get all the nuances out of even high end speakers, you will have to mount them properly. When you see high end show car stereo installs there are always custom enclosures angling the speakers towards the listener. If you don't care about the best quality of sound, then do what you want- I'm not saying it has to matter to you. I'm a sound engineer by profession. I make my living interpreting and adjusting the relationships between sounds. My demands on my own stereo, even in my decade-and-a-half old 4runner, are pretty high. When I put money into my system, I will use my knowledge to make that investment go as far as possible, and I know for a fact that off-axis coloration DOES make a big difference in the quality of sound. Is it the end of the world for most? no. Can you make yourself a better sounding stereo for a little extra effort and forethought? absolutely. I'm just trying to pass on the information that some people might find helpful.

NYChopshop

True, but not as tangential as most, we're just a group of people talkin about our respective stereos and respective possible or previous door speaker installation... I swear... arent we?

aviator

Out of curiosity Tex would you have an idea on the dimensions of those stinger blockers? I'm running the factory 4" boxes in the dash and am thinking it would be cleaner to install the blockers in the box with the speakers rather than outside... or would that lead to overheating and possible induced wave signal distortion?
Another option would be inline with the speaker + wrapped in heat shrink I guess... Which would be best do you think? any thoughts chopper?

NYChopshop

If you pull the little 4" box out (or your glove box for any reason) you'll see that there is a clip on that wire allowing it to be easily removed. Personally, I would splice the blockers into the wire before the disconnect clip and call it a day. There is plenty of room back there where there may be none either inside the box or behind the head unit.

Texas91Runner

This is darn true, actually. I see no problem with it.

Texas91Runner

They are cylindrical in shape with about a 1/2" diameter and about 1" in height; they have nearly 6" of 16 gauge wire coming from both ends that are already stripped.