91diesel

Sorry but I can't take the high school physics lessons anymore. Weight plays a significant role in mpg. It may not in a controlled text book environment, but we don't drive on frictionless surfaces. If weight only played a significant role during acceleration then when I load my truck up (which I did moving) and drive on the interstate the whole way I wouldn't see much of a drop in mpg. How come I see a drop of 5mpg or more? Maybe more rolling resistance on tires, maybe we don't live and drive on a glass plate. To simply write off weight as a mpg issue........well if you knew, you wouldn't be posting that along with the blower fan idea.

STEvil

Inflate your tires a bit more and dont drive uphill. Also quit accelerating so hard edit - stuff in the bed of the truck hurt your aerodynamics as well!

I agree we dont drive in a controlled environment but the fact remains that weight is a null issue because you cant magically remove 20% to 50% of the weight of your vehicle. You can however improve your aerodynamics by 20% by lowering it and some toying probably. Getting closer to 50% might be harder.

We have to work within the constraints that we are given. They are that weight can not be greatly modified.

Torque increases that can overcome the weight would be great though.

Kiwipushrod

Hey 91,

I dont remember posting anything about a "blower fan idea".

I can delete My "high school physics lesson", if You would like Me to,.....Then You can continue to enlighten Me,......b.t.w. My 90' Toy 4x4 pu, has acheived 40+ mpg, more then once, by using what I learned in high school physics.

Thanks, Kiwi

Crawdad

With the 3800?

91diesel

I assume you mean over the course of a whole tank and with a toyota engine in it? multiple times? Do you live at the top of a 200 mile long hill? Of course if you're going to make a claim like that, know that first off I don't believe it for a minute, and second, we would all like to see some proof (I don't know how you'd manage that on the internet, but if you can get 40+ mpg out of a 1990 4wd toyota, then it shouldn't be that hard for you.) Now I could see this as possible with a diesel/6spd or maybe a FI corvette engine/6spd but once again I assume you are talking about a toyota engine. Details please!

Kiwipushrod

Hey 91,

ASSumtions are,....well You know,..just that.

Unfortunatly, Toyota does'nt make a cheap fuel effiecent motor, that I know of,....Do You? They were always, Assumed to be fuel effiecent, when in fact, their not, just ask any first time 3.0 auto 2nd gen, 4runner owner (4x4, EPA city rated 12 mpg, hwy 18 mpg).

I actually run it out of gas, then add 1 gallon, and repete once (on the way back), to get the quickest results per mod, then avg the 2. My 1 gallon high is 41.5 mi., repeated twice. My per tank high is 32 mpg, My per tank low is 22.4, some hauling and towing. I have about 4500 mi. on the swap and it is the real deal.

I'm using a 97' Camaro L36 3800II v6, that was EPA hwy rated 30 mpg, w/BW T5, 5sp, 3.73 rear. In the Toy, I'm running the 3800 on a self built R150/AX15 5sp Hybird trans, w/87' Firebird 2.8 bell house, 4.10 gears, and 32" tires,....I'm now converting a Supra R154 to 4x4, using the rear case from an R150F, to get the R154's, .73 5th gear, which will bring Me to a 1958 rpm, 65 miles per hour cruise. The 22re to 3800 weight difference is 70#'s, the Camaro was 400 lbs heavier, but much more aerodynamic. EPA ratings are also,.... only Assumtions.



I'm also experimenting with an oversized egr valve and tube (03' GM 5.3), that at 40% open, actually exceeds the stock GM ecu's ability to further enrich fuel, (can only enrich 25%) that brings Me into the 16/1 A/F ratio realm, (I have no mpg #'s on this yet) and the best part is, if I burn this motor down,...I'll just go to the junkyard and buy another for $250-$300, and be back up the next day .





If You believe Me or not,..It makes it no less true, or false. All this on high school physics.

So theres My Junk,.......

Thanks, Kiwi

91diesel

Congrats on the swap, and you are definitely correct about getting better mpg using high school physics with your swap, as I did with my diesel swap. But to say that weight doesn't count towards mpg is ignorant. I have the toyota auto with my swap and am thinking about a gear splitter for the highway or maybe a set of 3.90's with 32" tires to get the revs down to around 2000 @ 70mph. Unfortunately it is a PITA to get a manual set up for the diesel motor so that isn't really an option for me unless I can get Advance to make me an adapter for cheap.

Kiwipushrod

Hey 91,

Diesel Swap Pic's?

Thanks, Kiwi

X-AWDriver

Alos consider how much money this will cost achieve a negligibble amount of MPGs since it might cost you 100k of miles to recoup the investment.

I've worked and raced turbo cars since '93 and the fan thing has been thrown around by everybody from amateurs to pros and today there still is no "fan mod" that actually does anything to benefit a turbo car or an NA car period. If it did I'd be the first to post about it.

STEvil

Nice job with the 3800 V6.

Might be interesting to try a supercharged 3800 or northstar

Kiwipushrod

Hey STEvil,

Funny You should mention that,......The "Fabled R154F" will be hanging on a 99' L67 SC 3800II,....I'm looking for a decent, 2nd gen 4Runner, w/AC,...any volunteers?

Thanks, Kiwi

notjustatoy

WOW, this thread got outta hand quick!

^^ not callin you a liar but i would love to see that. I have a 93 Accord BONE STOCK, very well maintained, and I baby it, and i'm gettin 35-37mpg. I think that is DAMN good. If your gettin 40mpg we need to hook up so I can see this.

And to the O.P.,
If you want mpg, ditch the turbo, get a 22re, small tires, and a light foot

edit: ditch the ride, and go get a mopad

STEvil

notjustatoy - how about I stuff my 1984 1150 GS motor into it instead? Little more than a moped lol.

Kiwi - only mentioned it because a lot of people put those motors in Fiero's.. supposed to be really nice fuel mileage on them.

notjustatoy

[QUOTE=STEvil;50855492]notjustatoy - how about I stuff my 1984 1150 GS motor into it instead? Little more than a moped lol.
QUOTE]

NOW your talkin....lol lol

CyMoN

I will sell you my forced air system for 150$ but you will need miles of extension cord to run it I use it in the winter to stoke the fire but I would let it go for 150$

I now use my air compressor to stoke the fire so I have no need for this any more.

n16ht5

oh man... this thread is going to pot...

ozziesironmanoffroad

steve, consider this dude. let me get it right first... you want to put a fan before the air filter? ok. lets go on that. the air it sucks in, (even if its more than the turbo can suck, lets go with that), you're going to have to go THROUGH the air filter, which will hinder the flow of air. THEN you are gonna have to go up through the turbo, which will FURTHER hinder the air. only so much air can go into the turbo dude. and on top of that, you have the air being pulled through the tube ACROSS the TOP of the radiator, thus heating the air. and you said yourself, hot air is no good. give it up man, be happy with what you got. if you aint, then sell that baby to someone who will actually appreciate it for what it is.
oh, and to the diesel guys: i always heard diesels produce NO vacuum due to the compression ratio being so high, so thats why they need vacuum pumps, to control the brakes and such.

Herblenny

I don't know where some of you guys live but weight will always play bigger roll than aerodynamics in SUVs... I would understand if you are planning to drive 100lb car with tiny engine on a flat road at speed of 75MPH, then I might say aerodynamics will play a bigger roll but not for a city driving, less than 150MPH on the interstate, weight will play a bigger roll. Try this. Why don't you get a bike, put a 300lb man behind you and just ride around a flat road. I guarantee you, you'll struggle on the road even if its flat and you trying to maintain constant speed of 15MPH... and I say aerodynamics is pretty much the same as if you were riding yourself.

Also, friction resistance from certain tires will play bigger roll than aerodynamics as what most of us drive our SUVs for...

STEvil

You didnt get it right first.

Also, put a phone book over the intake of a decent size diesel then come back and tell me they dont make any vacuum.

Herb - Go back to school.


Thanks for all that participated, the discussion is over until I get around to playing with some stuff.

Crawdad

Since this thread ain't exactly on the E train to Successville, everyone go check out Kiwipushrod's 3800 swap on Pirate. It's a really good read, he did an amazingly clean job.

I started following it before I bought my Yota, and it was one of the reasons I bought it Here's the PBB link