Robert m

iTrader: (2)

stop posting and go try this out already because thats the only way it seems your going to learn that this wont work. your not even making the incorrect points anymore like you were, your just disagreeing with people that have more knowledge on this subject then you do and making yourself look like a complete idiot.
and when your done, please take pictures of the setup so we can all laugh at your expense and failure.

kd

dude youre an idiot!!!!! i didnt want to get off the topic but i feel i should go into my background just a little. for the last 6 years ive been building cars. i starterd with s13 240sxs, i had 3 of them the last 2 were powered by sr20det motors, actually the same sr20 sence after i wrecked my 2nd one drifting i transplanted all my parts into the 3rd one. my sr20 originally had a garrett t25 turbo (good throttle response but couldnt sustain boost above 12psi wery well, my second turbo on this motor was called a garrett gt28rs or disco potato the highest i boosted this turbo was 18psi and it reached it by 2600rpm. when i sold the 240 i bought an audi a4 1.8t which comes stock with a ko3 turbo which is very small i upgraded to a ko4 and did some chip tuning and had that car boosting 21 psi on revo software. my current project is a 69 bmw 2002 which is about to be powered by a 2.7 m20 eta w/is head and guess what that car is turbod too, the kit is custom all pieced together by me using a turbonettics t3/t4 running on megasquirt v2.2.

a BLOW OFF VALVE expels AIR from the compressor side of the turbo system it releases the boosted air in between the compressor and the throttle body when you take your foot off the gas so that when the throttle body closed yuor turbo dosnt spin backwards these are sometimes called blow off valves or bypass valves the latter reroutes air back into the intake after the mass air sensor on cars that use mass air sensors.

there is something else called a WASTEGATE which uses a spring to actuate a valve on the exhaust side of the turbo system (sometimes on the compressor housing its self somtimes on the exhaust manifold) the valve lets exhaust gas bypass the turbine wheel and thus maintains a set boost level.

you should wait to actually experience turbo lag before you go and try to tell people about it and a fan wont help you there either

all turbos run from exhaust gas. this is all basic knowledge that you should know if youre going to start posting up like a big boy, and you dont. you just sound like a complete idiot to people who actually do know how things really work. do yourself and me a favor and refrain from posting anymore BS info. thanks

kd

your knowledge of computer fans is impressive though, anytime that comes up in discussion feel free to chime in

AxleIke

Dammit.

I started reading this thread hoping there would be some info on how to mod an engine to get better mileage.

First of all, the hypermiler doesn't work for me. I tried it for a few tanks and saw an increase of about 1-2 mpg average. That isn't enough to justify the aggravation and irritation that driving like that causes. A heavy ass 4cyl truck will not get good mileage. I only get 22 city 25-27 hwy. Getting 23 or 24 city is not worth it. Saves me like 2 bucks at the pump.

So from what I've been able to gather from this thread is that I need a stand alone fuel and air system? Correct? Would the stuff available from LCE work?

I've also read that the 22re is not built for fuel effiecency. I've read that its a tractor motor.

Any info on this LS1? What is that, and what does it come from? Are those 30+ mpg's from cars, or from swapped toyotas? Any car is going to get better mileage than my lifted brick.

Thanks

1989toy4wd

Okay, im not that familiar with 22ret's, but I am going to take a stab at this:

Okay, I am going to think that the 22ret has a VAFM just like my 22re. And this whole thing in the most basic way. If you put a fan in front of it that could flow enough air to make a difference, you are going to cause it to open a little bit more just like you are giving it some throttle. Then the engine is going to add fuel, where is the gas mileage in that.

Also the computer fans I have seen are square with a tiny fan in them. They look they they would just be a restriction. (when you say this i think of a tornado, which are crap and dont work, they actually make you lose power and mileage) They would have to flow a hell of a lot of air to make a noticable difference, and then it would be called an electric supercharger, which tests have shown that they dont work. Also, when you think about it, the "wind" that the fan produces would have no effect on the engine cause the turbo is a restriction.

22re's are just not an efficient motor I am just going to suck it up and pay 4 dollars a gallon at 16 mpg!!! (or 24mpg in my camry )

The secret to gas mileage is power to wieght ratio, and aerodynamic drag. I read in diesel power of a dodge 12 valve diesel getting 40mpg, all they did was improve aerodynamics with cardboard!!! nothing else.

Our trucks are like bricks driving through the air!!

Just my .02

STEvil

Of course it needs to be enclosed. Blowing air randomly's not going to get anything done.

That fan (and most 6-24v electronic cooling fans in the same style) are rated at free-air. Their efficiency will drop slightly given static pressure or negative pressure (tip: fans work best sucking from a restriction rather than blowing into a positive pressure area).

Not to mention you'd be feeding hot air and it would be a huge waste of space and the rad fans would have positive air pressure on the inlet side when moving. May as well just plum in a better intake.

KD - Thanks for educating me on turbos, but you could have done it a bit nicer I do have limited experience with them but I have to say the stock one on the 22RET in my SR5 doesnt spool until well after 2500 quite often.

AxleIke - Modifying the air inlet box and replacing the MAF with one from a Supra is supposed to help a bit. The intention I have with adding the fan(s) is to emulate the modified airbox without needing to expose it to the open air so much where it can suck in water and bugs a lot easier. It is not meant to be the end all save all, just merely something to help. I've never seen the 22R used in a tractor. It (the Gen1) does have a longer stroke than the 20R and 2nd gen 22R which gives it slightly more torque but it was designed and built to be used with the Toyota pickups and SUV's of the mid 80's.

1989Toy4wd - Please read my response to AxleIke. In addition the fan may provide extra low-mid throttle response. Not much but hey, whatever helps I think I agree 22re's are not efficient.. but then again i'm not a huge fan of 4-bangers in general lol.

As to the secret to gas mileage, weight is only a factor when accelerating. When holding cruise your aerodynamics play the largest factor which is why you can put an LS1 in a car and get 25-30mpg vs a 4-banger getting 25-30mpg.

I think I have a copy of that magazine. It was 30mpg (up from 20-something)

Also calculated my trucks mileage. 375km on 55L which works out to about 19.2mpg if i'm not mistaken. Not that bad for a slushbox 22RET brick

Broomie's

But what about the Flux Capaciter? Marty is it Fluxing? I just wasted 15 minutes of my life that ill never get back reading all this crap about a 22RET that wasn't meant to get great MPG!! IT's Torque Stupid The toyota truck was meant to drive offroad and at best get you around town at 22,23mph. Get a K&N filter up front and a good exhaust in the rear and thats about it!

abecedarian

the simplest mod you could do to the 22RET (turbo) for more mileage would be to change from auto to manual shift. just about any automatic has a 10-20% worse MPG rating than the comparable engine in front of a stick shift. you loose a bit of mileage just because of the torque converter.

STEvil

Agree abecedarian.

Broomies - Already K&N equipped.

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

well since he has an auto, if he were to put only fill the trans with 1/2 the fluid, not only would that save some weight, but then the torque converter also wouldnt have to move that much fluid so he should get better mileage. the fins in the converter would also act like a big fan and cool the fluid off to make the trans last longer. he could always just shift it as a manual so that would help mileage too!

STEvil

double post, doh.

STEvil

Dunno if the slushbox in my truck is similar in design to a 700R4 from GMC/Chevy but running the fluid that low would be an extremely dangerous thing to do for them... besides, weight isnt so much the issue as it is aerodynamics.

I do shift it "manually" already somewhat to optimize shift points a bit.

edit - why does the quick reply button seem to not work?

Kiwipushrod

Hey Guys,

From My experience, the manual trans has an 7-10% economy advantage, over an automatic, the reasons being, IMO, power loss from main hyd. pump, needed for auto clutch pak operation, and fluid drive of tourqe converter, which is no longer a loss at cruise, after lock up. there is also more power loss, from running a planetary gear set instead of direct drive gear set.

The 22r is a tractor motor.

Weight, is only a problem when You have to accelerate it (Newton's Law), after it is to speed, You pay no penalty, however....You will eventually have to stop.

Thanks, Kiwi

CJM

Uh that would destroy the trans..

abecedarian

were you planning on posting a 'j/k' sometime soon?
if not... go back to your corner!!!

Herblenny

Good to know you know that.. Then you should know its not going to work..


You just stated above that it NEEDS to be in enclosed.. You should also know that turbo will pull air far greater rate than that fan... Hence the fan WILL become the source of restriction!

If you understand the turbo system, you would know that its not relevant. Air after turbo is FAR greater than air taken in if you would divert the air from radiator. Hence my point from the beginning.. Fan like that is used for intercoolers not trying to push air in prior to turbo... Hence I feel that you lack the knowledge about turbo system.


Weight is only factor when accelerating??? I'm sorry, but weight is an issue when it comes to MPG. If you understand the modern EFI system, you'll know that weight contributes to load on the car. Higher load equates to more fuel into combustion, which increases MPG. MPG could be achieved in many ways.. One simple way is WEIGHT (less load), less drag tires for less resistance (skinner tires) , A/F and ignition timing (require stand alone ECU to run leaner at cruise), and gearing (less RPM for given speed). Aerodynamics really don't play much unless you are hitting high speed. Most cruise at 55-70 all trucks will share very very similar resistance regarding aerodynamics.

Kiwipushrod

Hey Herblenny,

I dont think that any one is disputeing the fact that increased weight, plays a large negitive part in fuel economy,....But simply stating, that once the mass (vehicle), is up to desired speed, the fact that it no longer requires acceleration,... Has Much less effect on economy.

Newtons first law simplified: An object at Rest tends to stay at Rest, an object in Motion tends to stay in Motion.

Thanks, Kiwi

Robert m

iTrader: (2)

nope, i wasnt going to. i was kind of hoping he would try it. i have seen people do way stupider stuff to cars then that though.

CyMoN

this needs to go to the off topic

this also reminds me of the guy that wanted to put a gas leaf blower on the intake to force more air in

STEvil

Gas leaf blower?

lol..

Herb - Aerodynamics play a huge part in fuel efficiency. Weight is nothing unless you are accelerating or going up a hill. Was it page 2 that had the link to the article of the truck with the custom body to achieve better fuel mileage? There's reference on page 3 as well of a diesel doing similar changes to increase MPG as well.

Gearing is a tough one. The "right gearing" is going to depend at what point your transmission locks up at if it is an automatic. Too high of gearing and it will slip all day long. Too low and you rev overly high.

Then you pair gearing to aerodynamics and you have an issue both auto and manual cant overcome. You need to find the most efficient RPM range to run because if your gearing it too low you will have to run lots of throttle to hold cruise where if you have it too high you will be running lots of needless RPM's.

Overall its better to right slightly high because you can just put your foot into the throttle less and it wont hurt as much as running the gearing too low.