rusche

3.4 V6 with the SC.
Got one on moms Tacoma
275 horse or so. Thats at like 8lbs. Bigger injectors, new ECU, and we could bump it to almost 16

Erik Beeman

Thanks for all the answers.



I have a project truck. I'll be the first to admit, money really isn't the stopper when building a motor for me. I am interested in the LC engine, but like I said, for 6K, I'd expect a little more than 200hp, especially when it's a turbo set up. I only say this...because I and a buddy just finished building a turbo 4 cylinder for his Mitsu Starion..a G54B block..the motor is a 2.6, running on TBI, vs the option of MPI...and we're putting it out around 250. That's at 7psi, running a stand alone ECU (Megasquirt).........we build them ourselves, and I believe the total cost of everything, was, MAYBE 4K.


I have a project truck, and it'll get a swap at one point or another. If you look at it this way, yes, you guys are right..If I want 400hp, I can just build a V8 and do all that, blah blah. But the point is (for me, at least), is fun having a small (or, large relatively) 4 banger that puts some pretty good power to the ground. I'm just looking for opinions and options. The idea for me is to DD the truck, while on the side build the motor I want..how I want, and when it's finished, put it in.

Erik Beeman

There is a guy I work with currently that has some knowledge about these little Toyota's.. He's seen a few 350 swaps in them (Keep in mind I own a 2WD 88 RE), and he says with the V8 torque, he's seen the frames twist. Truth, or bull? Wouldn't traction be a problem, before the frame goes kerplunk?

DIRTCO

I have to agree that LCE is top of the line and makes a great product. They are pround of their products though, and seem to price a lot of them that way. I guess the way you have to look at it is your getting a fully rebuild racing engine (like you were saying). Most of the engines LCE are building are set up for racing classes were you have to keep that engine (no engine swaps), so you spend the money and your one of the fastest in your class.

I agree with a lot of the other people here when I say that a 3.4 swap would be a smarter way to spend the money. The 3.4 is a better motor to start out with if your going to be looking for more power down the road, it's also going to be more cost effictive. The one thing you have to remember when you look at the cost of the LCE engine is that it's a completly rebuilt racing engine. Yea, you can swap in a Supra engine, 3RZ or 3.4 cheeper or for the same price but these are stock, used engines. They might make the same or more power but it's really not the same thing. I'm sure that there is almost as much labor in one of the LCE 22r engines as there is in a built V8 engine.

I'm in the process of building a 86' Turbo 4Runner as my daily driver, rock crawler and all around expedition style rig. It has an LCE short block set up for the turbo along with some other goodie's. While it's not a power house, it does get around really well. I have not noticed any problems with the turbo on the trail. It doesn't boost up very often (on the trail) but that's not an issue, it's pretty much like a stock 22RE. Also, along with RPM, engine load plays a large factor in how hard the turbo is working. I can cruise along a flat highway at a higher RPM and have very little boost, while around town going up a large hill the turbo starts to spool up a lot faster and harder. On the trail, in low range, there is very little load on the engine because of all the extra torque created by the extra gearing. The reason I like the turbo is for the trip to, and from the trail. That's really where it makes a differance.

seaofnames

The old rule applies when you talk about larger displacement.

There is no replacement for displacement!

Its still a 4 banger, but it is larger, its going to be capable of putting out more power if its completely rebuilt.
Another thing to think about is torque/hp curves, not just peak numbers.

Erik Beeman

So what? That G54B block we use, people on his forum are making 400+hp out of them...Your right...in the long run, thousands and thousands of dollars later, that 2.6 will be able to put out more power...but a 2.4L should still be more than 197, being fully built on top of that

stagger_lee

^^Agreed^^

With the turbo technology thats out there, you can pull some big numbers on little displacement as long as you have the bottom end to support. That little quote "There is no replacement for displacement!" that all the old timers use, doesn't totally apply so much anymore. I could have safely pulled 300awhp out of my little 2.0 suby for a little under $3k.

I think Abe mentioned earlier, that is a conservative tune on behalf of LCE, and they could pull quite a bit more from that set up. I would give them a call before you totally write them off. Its good stuff for sure.

scuba

Dude, I havent had money to get out and get all the parts, and no, the lift isnt on....I dont have an angle grinder either...

I've never owned a turbo engine...

what are you getting at ?

NicCantDecide

I'm sure you can take the LCE engine and retune it for higher boost, put a bigger turbo on it, etc.

I know people pushing 600hp out of stock block honda 4-bangers with forged pistons and billet H-beam rods. With sleeves, there are some people pushing over 800hp.

But remember this is only peak numbers and the torque curves on these engines are walls, flat until 3-4k then they shoot up a few hundred ft lbs in under 1k rpms.

I'd say if you want an engine that won't break and is very reliable, buy the LCE engine. Its brand new, proven to run at 200hp. you'd be surprised at how fast 200hp feels in a truck/4Runner too, especially since stock we barely put out 100 to the wheels. Give em a call and ask them what kind of engine management they use and if its possible for you to modify the maps aftermarket or not. If its possible then upgrading it will be a lot cheaper.

seaofnames

Its a 22r series engine, which means it has 2.2L of displacement.
Torque/hp curves are much more important when actually racing/tuning then they are some peak numbers on paper.

Go ahead and put in an engine with no torque and see how it moves below 3000 rpm. Torque is also important for trucks because they are heavy and are meant to be used offroading and towing where torque is key.

Sport trucks are great and have their place, but 4X4's should be used for that, and not drag racing.


Thanks for mentioning the curves. They are almost always forgotten when talking about tuning trucks.

82yota

Don't want to get into this much but seaofnames, you gotta understand that 22R doesn't mean R series 2.2L. It is a 2.4L engine. The 20R was the 2.2L. Don't know why but that is what they are. Just thought I'd clear that up for ya.

Erik Beeman

The 22RE, is a 2.4L. And my truck, an 88 22RE, standard cab, short bed, 2WD...is probably lighter than modern day cars. I'll be more worried about putting the power to the ground more than I will about how much torque I can make. The stock motor would spin my tires now, and I think it has what, 110 ft lbs? With a build motor, it's going to put out more than that, and if it's spinning the tires NOW, well, you can put the rest of that sentence together.

abecedarian

Interesting point...
... getting the power you have to the ground before worrying about how much power there actually is....

I've seen people with VW's take Hemi's in an 1/8 mile.
I've beat a turbo'd 5sp up to 100 miles per hour in my ... equqivalent automatic ... chrysler 2.2L turbo.
I've seen stock Buicks take Corvette's... anyone remember the GNx?

and now we have a 2.4L... I've seen 2.0L with 200 HP....

one thing to consider... put that subaru in a tug of war with your toyota... need I say more?

abecedarian

whoops.

Hayes

If I remember correctly, the 20 and 22 have absolutely nothing to do with the displacement. 20R is the 20th iteration of the R series engine and 22R(E) was the 22nd iteration of the R series engine. 22R is a carb'd engine and the 22RE was fuel injected.

scuba

GNX FTW !!!

seaofnames

Awesome point. 4Low rocks.




Sorry to everyone about the displacement thing, my bad.

Diesel_Freak

X2 for the 3.4. Better yet, swap the 1KZT-E into it and you'll have the coolest toyota on this side of the pond. That's what I would have done if I had 6K to spend on a new motor/Swap.


What a waste of money, AND No its not, you HONduh folk crack me up... Want power in a compact tuner car?: get a VW or get over it... You folks don't have a clue what Torque and power is or what it does untill I say BYE BYE in a real performance vehicle

Cheers

Dave

Diesel_Freak

Correct... Sort of... The 20R WAS a 2.2L, the 22R/E are 2.4L motors.

EDIT: All this talk about different motors is completely irrelevent, so what if a FHI Boxer Motor can make 500hp... it's a different motor that was designed to take that power load and flow enough air to make those numbers. A motor like the 22RE is a long stroke motor that frankly was not meant to spool up to 7K and make 400horse. Is it stong enough??? Yes, absolutely, but it was designed to be a tourquey motor, not a race engine. The money I spent to take my 1.8L 8V VW motor up to over the 200hp at the wheels (206) mark was un-real. But with all that money came high quality parts and added longevity so... There are all kinds of motors with all kinds of displacements and designs, but not all of them will do the same thing. A motor is an air pump. The faster and more efficently you can get air in and out determines your power. Everything else just modifies your powerband or your Torque curve. With that in mind, have at it.

Cheers

Dave

TOYOTA 1

theres no replacement for displacement.