xxxtreme22r

adding them together and dividing by two should have worked, not sure what happened there. I guess it's one of those theory versus reality things who knows. Since camber affects toe as previously mentioned I would make sure the camber is correct first then set it to what the FSM says and go from there. They are the factory tie rod ends right?

palmer_df0130

The camber should be good since the alignment was just done, so I will do some more tinkering around with it tomorrow when I can see a little better. Do you think maybe the TRE's were threaded in wrong, i.e. not showing equal thread on each side? The only way I guess to find out is do what Clydehatchet said and take them off and make sure they are both the same.

clydehatchet

Its possible that the TRE's are installed in the the adjustment sleeves wrong, it can be troublesome to get them started in the adjustment sleeve right. like i said before, you might consider replacing the TRE's and sleeves. If you do, use some grease when threading them into the sleeve. I wouldn't loosen the cam bolts and take them out unless you want to pay for another alignment. Dont go to that place anymore. Go somewhere that is MAP certified or has high regard in your area, they are required to issue alignment printouts. any reputable shop should give printouts. sometimes WE dont because our printer is broken or something stupid, but we will show the customer the computer screen if they ask. or when shopping for a shop, ask these questions that you are learning through this process.

palmer_df0130

Cool, thanks for the heads up on the cam bolt. I'm gonna do the string method for the toe tomorrow and see if it comes out equal on each tie rod.

palmer_df0130

I have a question about the pitman and idler arms. When the steering wheel is centered, will the idler and pitman arms be facing striaght back and parallel to the frame? When I center the steering wheel they are not parallel and when I did make them parallel, my steering wheel is turned from center to 1/4 turn. I adjusted the toe with the pitman and idler arms parallel, but the right side is off by as much as 5/16th. I got a frustrated and left it at that. The left side is good and even. I lowered the truck and rolled it back and forth and checked the camber with the plumb line and the drivers side is noticibly off and passenger side is good. Could the camber being out make the toe that far off? Sorry for being so long winded, but just look for some help and answers. Thanks.

clydehatchet

first, make sure that by 'centering the steering wheel' you are counting turns ON the steering wheel. make sense? you should equal rotations to steering wheel stop on each side, like maybe 2.5ish turns left from center and the same for right. once you have discovered steering wheel center, check your front end. yes your pitman arm and idler arm should be parallel. once that is established, your toe should be equal. if one side is noticeably further in or out than the other, you should readjust. as for camber and toe? in theory, if camber is off, it will throw all things out. but toe can be set to solve most tire wearing and off center steering wheel issues.

palmer_df0130

The steering on the drivers side is coming up short on the revolutions to hit the steering stops. I'm getting about 1 3/4 turn to the right and about 1 1/4 to the left. What do I have to do to get the steering wheel centered now that the components below are centered? I'm thinking of following the driveway alignment instructions to adjust the camber on the drivers, because it is leaning visibly way out on top. Once I do this, should the toe be easier to get lined up? The passenger side is good to go on toe and camber right now, but I know it will change after adjusting the drivers side.

InternetRoadkill

The steering stops may give you a false indication where the wheel center is. Find the center by measuring the distance from the ends of the pitman arm and the idler arm to the frame rails. Use the center of the joint on ends as the end point. The arms are not exactly parallel to frame when the steering is centered.


If the camber is way out so much that it's obvious, you need to make sure the ball joints are ok and installed correctly. Something ain't right there.

palmer_df0130

It looks like I got camber on the drivers side good, now it's on to ensure the toe is good. The camber bolt the was facing up is now facing down. I loosened the cam nut and it flipped around on it's own. The alignment place I took it to must have not even touched it and only adjusted the toe. I appreciate all of your guy's help on this.

clydehatchet

thats very common for an alignment shop to do whats called a 'toe and go'. most of the time the customer is none the wiser.

palmer_df0130

Hey Clyde or whoever can help,
I have a 2 part question. How do I get the steering wheel straight with the toe? I centered everything underneath and set the toe, but I can't get the drivers side tie rod threads to equal the passenger side. It seems like I have to pull the drivers side in alot more(less threads showing). I got it as close as I possibly could and I test drove it. When I test drove it, the steering wheel turned itself to the left. The truck stayed straight, but the steering wheel kinda off centered to the left.
Should the cam bolts read the same, i.e rear cams read same(holes on indicator face towards center of vehicle or out) and same on front? I'm not sure if I explained it correctly for you to understand. I can post a pic if it helps.

xxxtreme22r

I wonder if the steering wheel was moved because of alignment issues by the P.O. or a previous alignment shop and might have to be moved back to where it belongs.

Also when I did my pitman arm and powersteering conversion, because of some (ok alot) of play in the centerlink, tie rod ends, etc etc, it was difficult for me to get the steering wheel to line up correctly on the splines of the pitman arm. FYI, I never touched the disconnect from the steering wheel rod to the steering u-joint when I did the conversion. So my wheel is now mis-aligned a little.

palmer_df0130

After getting the everything lined up underneath, the steering wheel went from parallel to the floor to perpendicular. It turned a quater turn to the right. I did wind up disconnecting the steering shaft from the gear box and center the steering wheel. It was definitely removed before, because now I get eaual rotations of the steering wheel left and right. I am slowly starting to get it dialed in better than what it was. I just need to know if the cam bolt on the rear for caster should match each other as well as the fronts for camber. Should they be turned to the same index marks on each side, meaning they are pushed out or pulled in the same distance?

clydehatchet

being that you are IFS, camber and caster dials do not have to be identical. nor do they have to be equally adjusted for either side. you might have to adjust more on one side than the other, but there shouldnt be a large difference. since you have gotten you steering wheel to provide equal rotation, your next check is the pitman arm to ensure that it is parallel to the frame when the steering wheel is straight. if not, remove it, and reinstall to OEM location. after that is when you adjust your toe. with our steering setup, you first straighten your steering wheel, then adjust your toe, being that you dont have a machine to aid in measurements, make sure to frequently check your steering wheel while you are adjusting. hope this answers your question, and it makes sense.

palmer_df0130

I am going to give it one more shot at getting this sucker dialed in with driveway alignment writeup. I am about done with it. I haven't touched the passenger side cam bolts since I started this because it was already good. I got the drivers side camber good, but the toe is a pain in the ass for both sides. I can get the passenger side to measure at the back rim to measure a 1/16" difference from front to back, but the drivers side I can about 3/16". At 3/16", it looks like way to much toe in compared to the passenger side. What am I doing wrong? After a test drive, it still pulls left and steering wheel wants to go left. What do I do now? In the write up, it say's to decrease caster on the driveres side if it pulls to the left. Should I do that and readjust the toe again?

clydehatchet

well, if your caster is not equal on both sides, it could pull. IE right side might be too far forward thus pushing your truck left, of the left might be too far rearward causing a pull. as long as they measure the same distance pos or neg, your caster should be fine. it sounds like you have gotten your steering wheel corrected (i assume). measure your caster, if they dont VERY closely match, adjust accordingly. recheck your camber and toe, adjust accordingly, drive.

InternetRoadkill

How are you measuring toe in?

palmer_df0130

I am measuring toe with the string method explained in the driveway alignment on this forum. The right side just doesn't want to line up as good as the passenger side.

rlordjr

I've got 95 4Runner with similar issues. Slightly unaligned steering and slight pull to the left on braking. Both front calipers and pads are new so I may suspect the right front brake hose.

However, the truck sits a bit lower on the right side than the left so maybe that is a factor.

I have not actually had an alignment done since I got the truck a few months ago so perhaps that's all it needs.

betelnut

Dang, you guys, what a load of confusion in this thread. It's not that tough!

First, if you've adjusted the camber/caster cams without using a caster/camber alignment tool on perfectly level ground to FSM specs, you'll have to do so. If you don't have that tool, you'll have to take it to the alignment shop. Even with the usual cheapo home alignment tool, this is pretty tricky; I welded up adjustable platforms with slip plates for the wheels and use a laser leveler to be sure the tool's giving me the right readings. Basically, if you touched those cams, just take it to the alignment shop now.

If you're sure your camber and caster are OK, here's how to set the toe:

- As Clyde said, find the center of steering. Your pitman arm and idler arm should be pointing forward. Don't be fooled by the bump stops as Roadkill says, or maybe some other unlikely thing is out of whack. Anyway, at this center, if the steering wheel is not straight, then remove it and put it back on straight.

- Next, use string or a couple of yardsticks (however you've been told) to check the toe. The front of the rims and rear of the rims from wheel to wheel should be exactly the same distance. If not, adjust the tie rods until they are.

At this point, the toe will be set right, but when you drive, the steering wheel will likely be at an angle. To fix that, last step:

- Drive the car forward a little so wheels are pointing straight ahead.

- Loosen both tie rod sleeves. Turning both at the same time, adjust them the same amount in opposite directions so that the toe is not affected (turn one side 1 turn to make that tie rod longer, the other side 1 turn to make that tie rod shorter), but so that the steering wheel straightens out. You should see the steering wheel's position change, but the toe should stay the same. Make sense?

Hope this clears things up a little, instead of adding more to the confusion!

Last thing, these trucks don't need shims. All caster/camber adjustments are done with the cams. If the alignment shop couldn't get the alignment right with the cams (like if the frame is bent, or the bushings/ball joints are bad, or even if they don't know what they are doing), they might think they need to put shims in between the upper A-arm shaft and body. However, this is wrong, and they should not be doing it. (By the way, have you checked that nobody's already done that?) If the caster/camber can't be adjusted with the cams, there's a more serious problem that needs to be corrected first.