suprathepeg

Better ignition creates a more complete, more efficient burn (as I understand it) which results in lower temps. I'll have those first dyno numbers soon.

Weasy2k

Better ignition IE stronger spark... that makes the point of explosion...now WHEN it happens matters on temps...no matter what kind of ignition you got.

Bumpin' Yota

Are you kidding? I'd be ecstatic with RWHP/TQ numbers like that!!

Stock they are 150hp/180tq at the crank!

phorensic

Pff, at 154K it's at half its life. It is in very good condition. If I had enough money to fully rebuild it, o-ring it, and then slap the turbo system on, I would have done a 400hp 7mgte. As it stands I can barely afford the parts and labor to do this. No risk though, I live a mile from work in Southern Cali = ride my bike if need be (and have done before).

phorensic

Well, if not ALOT of pressure, then how about a bigger turbo with more flow at a lower pressure??

I've always wondered this. What would the final/total pressure in the cylinder be with the two possible turbo setups. 15psi ~500cfm, or 10psi ~700cfm (made those numbers up). I'm guessing it relates somewhat to total air mass (flow) and not just the boost pressure. However, high-pressure extremely hot air = detonation = boom. It's a question I have been asking myself for a long time.

suprathepeg

Phorensic, I think that you are shooting kinda high with your expectations. What kind of turbo are you planning to use? I think that in order to hit 200 without creating an underhood grenade you'll want to have a lot of work and money invested into it. I mean whats the point of doing it if you lose everything?

I'd also put together a system where you can turn the turbo off on the highway, IIRC the 7mgte has something like this.

Why don't you start with a smaller turbo and intercooler then after you get that done do your tuning. If out of that you can get another 30hp over stock and you have a nice setup you can feel confident in they try for the bigger power. You're talking about adding almost 50 HP without any engine management system. I think you'll run out of fuel before you know whats happening and it will melt down.

Talk to Jeff Moskovitz about what you want to do. He has invested a lot of time and money into his 22rte and can help you I'm sure.

Weasy2k

I still stick with a lower PSI period!
Dont try to create a monster the engine just wont take it.

phorensic

The turbo I am starting out with is a CT26. Obviously a very small turbo. Starting boost will be 6psi with the stock fuel system, which is close to maxing the injectors. Megasquirt will be my EMS of choice for my 200rwhp goal. Injectors and maybe a fuel pump being the logical upgrades before hitting that goal.

Don't mean to be a dick, but I've done a ton of research. This isn't a hopeless "let's see if it will work" adventure. My fabricator has previous experience with turbos, and I have *some*.

And the "turning off the turbo on the highway" thing you are refferring to is the stock bypass valve. People are 50/50 on the theory that the stock BPV allows air to flow around the compressor during cruising. It's never really been proven. But I will have one of those BPVs at first also.

suprathepeg

Yea not without some serious tuning, likely by a pro. That said I still want to see this done.

phorensic

Weasy2k, nobody really knows what this engine will take. Nobody has sat down with a large turbo, a good EMS, and a bulletproof HG and tested the limits of the bottom end.

In my research I have found that 99% of FI engine failures are not due to sheer power alone, but due to bad tuning. Any time you might see pictures of a holed piston, broken ring lands, broken rings, bent rods, holes in blocks, etc, it's usually not due to sheer power, but detonation/etc. So let's throw enough boost, fuel, and retarded ignition at it and see what it takes! lol

phorensic

I've been wanting to do this for 5 years. I finally have the income to do it. ALL the parts are ordered. The labor part is 3 weeks or so away. It WILL be done. If it doesn't work, you guys will either get to see photos of carnage or an incomplete project.

Weasy2k

Im not saying you didnt do research at all
Im not much on how to build a tubo system...i know what turbos do what but i suck at fabricating
Been tuning for 2 years now and thats what i like to focus on, yes i know tuinng is key...BUT watch that head...i told you whats going tohappen with the heat...keep an eye on it.
Other then that good luck and hope to see what comes of it!

JamesD

For a second I thought I was looking at a 22R dyno baseline!

James

Toysrme

I've been waiting to see a stock 3vz-e dyno!!!
phorensic
Which CT26 is it? A CT26a off a 7m-gte, or a ct26 off a 3s-gte? Either way 200whp is easy as pee to make. That's only 240-260bhp depending on which transmission you have.
(I've not done the math on a 3vz-e) but if that's a CT26a, you need to be prepared to make 200whp + at stock psi (6psi), at a relatively low rpm. After you've tuned it & got some mods going on.

Trust me. CT26's are not small turbo's.

Megasquirts are cool. I've resently been talked into building a MSII for a friend.

What fuel system are you going for; pump, FPR, and injector size?






runethechamp what you feel in acceleration is horsepower. Torque is meaningless, it is a static measurement. Horsepower is torque applied over both time and distance. Horsepower tells you what you can move, how fast you can move it, and the force of acceleration. Torque tells nothing useful. it is simply a value to find horsepower.

SRV1 ya... Until you realized that a 22r doesn't have over a hundred horsepower @ 3,000rpm. Christ they struggle to make 100bhp at all.

Toysrme

3vz-e Compression Ratio & Effective Compression Ratios under boost at PEAK volumetric efficiency:

Stock - 9:1
5psi - 10.33:1
7psi - 11.27:1
9psi - 12.22:1
11psi - 13.17:1
14.7psi - 14.92:1



While Toyota gaskets of the time all had problems & the 3vz-e is obviously the largest of all - they *technically* are OK to compression ratios between 11 & 12:1.

7-8 psi is not going to be a problem. 9psi shouldn't, 10 may not be. The obvious question.
"Oh but why? That's higher than the 11-12:1 CR the gaskets are likely to max out from."
Remember... This is peak effective compression ratio. Volumetric efficiency will rise to it's peak CR (Calculated above) then fall off sharply. (Very sharply on those craptastic stock cams!)
Obviously... The engine isn't going to spend that much time @ peak VE, so exceeding it shouldn't make much of a big deal.



Remember... The 1/2mz-fe's, along with several i4's of the time were sporting greater than 10:1 compression ratios on the same style gasket (Before the '96 new gaskets & 97 MLS's) & they're expected to run that all day, every day until they die.

Weasy2k

when i rebuild the 4runner here i will be looking at the fuel rail and what not to see what kind of options i can do for upgrades. Prob be very easy with the smt6 controling them or something. I would love to see this 12v engine preform decent!

runethechamp

I don't want to mess up this thread with any more discussion abut this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Had enough physics to figure out these calcs . But, if you can show me a set of equations that proves your point I will believe you.

phorensic, this sounds like an interesting project for sure, way past my knowledge and skills on motors. Good luck!

Weasy2k

Also i believe from my hydrualics training that torque is applied force...IE the power it takes to MOVE a vehicle, horsepower is how effectivly the force is applied at certain revolutions....it works in my head but torque has ALOT to do with accelration...think of a semi....TQ to HP ratio is leaning GREATLY to torque, imagine that engine in a car...it would do constant burn outs but wont go fast at all...
or look at a tugboat....can go the same speed with a load or without...

runethechamp

Sorry, I just have to give the explanation because I can.

Torque is the rotational equivalent of force. In the same way mass times acceleration equals force, angular acceleration times the inertia of whatever is rotating equals torque.

On the wheels, the torque is applied to the driveshaft. You divide by the radius of the wheel to get a force on the road, and can then again divide by the mass of the car to get the car's acceleration.

Horsepower is torque times angular speed, and can also be measuerd in watts or kilowatts. If you ignore losses from accelerating the drivetrain and wheels, the horsepower should be the same on the drive axle as on the crank. The torque is not, since the transmission and differentials gear down the rotation of the axles. For instance, in 5th gear where I think the transmission has a ratio of 1, the wheel torque is 4.1 (differantial ratio) times your shaft torque, while the rotational speed is the shaft rotational speed divided by 4.1.

It makes sense to me at least.

Weasy2k

yea that is in line with what is in my head...but we could have a whole entire about torque/hp relationship