95ToyotaPU007

I am very happy with my 3.slo

never driven a 22r

TNRabbit

it's like the other post said, the 3veezee is an oversquare bore & built more for torque than hp. Oversquare bores are less happy to rev.

DaveInDenver

This is part of the difference between a 20R and 22R. The 22R is better revving engine since it's oversquare unlike the 20R. I dunno, 3VZ-FE or 22R-E is a personal choice. I live in a hilly place that has a second whammy of higher altitude and my 22R-E has always satisfied me. It's not for a lack of cargo, I carry a 300 lbs camper (the WilderNest) and my truck is an XtraCab. My curb weight empty with just the camper is 4400 lbs. I guess my tolerance is higher than most, I'm not in a hurry or something.

UncleBob

Doesn't 'oversquare' mean shorter stroke? Shorter Stroke would mean the exact opposite of what you said. Shorter Stroke=higher revving.

Did you mean 'undersquare' or a longer stroke?

What is the bore/stroke of a 22RE? And of a 3.0?

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand. I've had three 3.0's, and an old 22R, but have never had issues out of any of them.

hosh

The two problems with my 3VZ-e 4runner
makes its power above 3000 rpm. trucks should make their power early on.
head gasket problems.
mine made it awhile but finally blew.

I've hauled cars, boats and other assorted junk on my trailer, just need more revs to get anywhere and need to plan passing.

I can pull a full size suburban up an enbankment with ease (did it last winter)

It wheels great, just wish i could run lower rpm in some situations.

I would not want a 22re in my runner. it's just to heavy for it.

My truck 82 22r and another i'm soon to have 92 22re are great as long as i don't want to tow much. and the gas mileage is nice

TNRabbit

Duh, you got me there. Yes, oversquare is what the 22re is, the 3.0 has a LONGER stroke than piston diameter...

dlbrunner

I have driven both. I don't like the 22-re not enough squirrels. Out west here there are a lot of long hills to pull, and the 22-re does not do it like the 3slo.

You can't really compare the engines, one is a v-6 the other a 4cyl.

depending on your personal application one will work betther than the other.

The reason why lots o people use the 22-re? there are tons of them. they get decenty mileage. they are easy to work on. If you look at the builds though, most are always geared down. The 22-re is not a miracle machine either. Head gaskets are a common failure point, as are the timing chain stuff.

I love that 3.slo tourqe map, it says it all... when you pop the clutch you have all your grunt right now. The 4cyl, you have to rev that puppy, same with a 350 (for comparison). I really like the v-6 for wheeling, it just lugs along. the only other engine that is as comfortable off road IMO is the 2f landcruiser motor. Both have good tourque delivered at low rpm.

I am a displacement guy though. If I look at a car, I only look at the model with the most displacement, otherwise I would always wonder what it would be like to have the bigger motor.

fork

haha my 3.slo does a good job of weighing the truck down in mud pits. and a great job of draining gas and making lots of noise. and also a good job of being a pain in the ass to work on.

ill bet lower diff gears would help it out some. stock gears, automatic, 32s. takes a while to get up to speed, but the truck has no problem cruising in the 80s (too bad there is nowhere on my island where i can legally go over 60 -- most places is 55)

UncleBob

Cool, well, then that's reason enough for me! Thanks for straightening that out, it makes sense.

TNRabbit

Well, 32s with stock gearing has GOT to make it a dog, especially with an automatic. Change to lower gearing & you'd find it a lot more agreeable. With no place to fly, it'd be worth it to gear down~!

leebee

ive had the 22re 5 spd in an 86 runner and now have the 3.0 auto in the 93. maybe im getting old but i dont miss all that shifting! i cant speak for wheeling the 86 as i never managed to 'git er done'.

i do wheel the 93, a lot and hard. the 4lo and 1st in the auto pretty much let me go anywhere i want, up or down hill. its really nice when you are in mud or water and dont have to worry about using the clutch, i just manually shift up as necessary.

as for highway, i think the 5 speed gives you a bit more flexibility than the auto. fuel economy is probably better by a bit with the 5 spd but its been a while since ive had the 86 so...

all in all, the information posted and debated is very helpful and enlightening, ive learned a bit more about both engines and assorted set-ups.

lee

Mark in MD

I had a 3.0 that I pushed snow with. That's a '95 pickup, with a plow mounted on the front, and 500 lbs of ballast in the back, and me. That thing could push half a foot of snow - UPHILL.

I wouldn't have wanted to try that in a 4 cyl.

Like others have said, the engine you want depends on what you use it for.

89silverpu

Thanks for all of the great replies on this subject. All this information taught me a lot about both engines and answered all of my questions. Does anyone have a horsepower/torque vs. RPM's graph like the V-6 one posted earlier on this thread. How much HP and torque does the 22re have?

EUROJulian

Well, I see lots of emotions

3.0 is just a bad engine, not like 22R is that great motor but is a OK.

22 is reliable engine. Easy to work on, there is aplenty of room in engine bay. Parts are plentifull and dirt cheap. 22 will rutinly run well over 250k miles before overhaul.
Performance parts are also easly aviable, to include stock turbo.

3.0 is a problem child, headgasket faliures, block erosion, ignition miss, bad EGR, leaky coolant bypases, vacum leaks, exhaust leaks, oil leaks, noisy as hell, prone to overheating, T-belt slipage, mickey mouse T-belt idler, variuos electrical problems: breaking injector connectors, breaking knock sensor pig tail...list goes on. Simply junk

ewong

Off the cuff - 112HP @ 5200rpm and 130lb-ft at 3000 rpm

Check the LC engineering site - the dyno sheets show stock and their "mod" values... so the stock numbers are there

CoedNaked

Have you ever owned one, and for a significant amount of time? IF so, did you experieince all of the problems you outlined?

Anyone who isn't a 3.0 theorist?

DaveInDenver

Good guess ewong, the numbers from my owner's manuals for 1991:
116hp @ 4800rpm
140ft-lb @ 2800rpm

elripster

Sounds like a theorist.

Here's my actual experience. Drive it. Drive it. Drive it. 5 years later do some work. Drive it. Drive it. Drive it. Looking at 300,000 miles and it gets swiped. Never added oil between changes. My 3.0 was the most maintenance free engine I have ever owned. I hope this one will be as well.

Both engines fell short and were dropped from the line up as they should have been. To put things in perspective, the "bastard child" existed because the "golden child" could get the job done. Therefore, shouldn't one ask just how golden the golden child really was?

Frank

Bunta Fujiwara

UncleBob: That is true fact. I have seen a 3VZ-E driven the same way I drive my 22R-E and it blew a head gasket and almost threw a rod at 240k miles. Now, that is only one example, as I will admit. Simply put, I would never rev a V6 of any kind the same way that I rev my 4 cylinder. I'm not saying that they can't be redlined occasionally, but certainly not as often as the 22R. The 3VZ-E has more moving parts and is more complex. It's an awesome engine, just as all other Toyota engines are. I completely believe the 1,000,000 plus miles thing. All I'm saying is to go a little easier on it than you would with a 4 cylinder. I rarely drive my Tacoma over 3500. I have taken it to 5500 twice and would never do that on a regular basis. The 5VZ-FE sounds insanely high pitched for the rpms it pulls. It's combined with a low guttural growl, too. Quite nice. But that was off-topic. I'd take a 22R over a 3VZ-E just because my first truck had a carbed one and I loved it. The reliability is about the same, if the driving and maintenance habits are correct. Not to say that I wouldn't want a 3VZ-E (I am planning to buy an '89.5 4Runner SR5), but if I had a choice between the two right in front of me, I'd take the 22R.

Bunta Fujiwara

As I've stated, the 22R-E produces 116 hp at 4800 and 142 lb-lbf. at 2800. The source is Matti Kalalahti's Toyota information site, found at:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/P.../tm_index.html

It's a completely reliable set of figures. I don't have an actual curve graph, and the only real place to find one would be directly from Toyota or from LC Engineering.

Actual hp figures will range from 105-116 depending on year and spec but 116 is the general one to go with.