GV27

But again, who built it? I saw one answer that Toyota built one - but surely he didn't buy a brand new one for twice what his truck is worth or whatever so who knows what was wrong with it. And on your third......how can it be a design flaw when 99.whatever % of them go for hundreds of thousands of miles and yours went for 15k? My guess is the instance of failures on new Toy motors within 15k miles is less than 1 in 100,000. Probably a LOT more rare than that. 1 in a million, maybe? Assuming you don't run it out of oil, ever-rev it, etc. So either the engine builder did something wrong or you did. Or you bought a used motor claimed to have 30k miles on it when it actually had 300k miles or something along those lines. I highly doubt it was a newly rebuilt motor that was built correctly.

And I have to laugh at the fact you think you know more about motor design than the Toyota engineers. How many years have you been designing motors? With what companies? Those guys build the most durable engines in the world. If it'll routinely go 250k miles, I think it's probably OK!

And sorry about the roll-eyes - that was really directed to the "piling on" the 22re rather than just at you.

ovrrdrive

Now you're just getting silly... :p

Tell me how many of their engines still use this inferior part. I'll wait for you.

fishon1213

The 22r series are fine motors. Wanna talk about a bad motor. 2.8 v6. Nuff said. Most any motor will have one or two common issues.
3.slow/head
4.3 GM/rear main seal
3.0 chrysler/ rings,blue smoke
Hey how about a thread for best/worst motors of all time, that wouldn't be opinionated at all.

I had a 22r with 190K, ran great
I now have a 22re with 85K, all kinds of problems

skife

i'd just like to be able to make up hills doing 70mph... this thing has trouble staying at 60

as i said, it can't get out of its own way on the highway.

fishon1213

So are you only referring to the 22re's in your current truck, or have you driven others. Maybe it's something with the truck. What gears do you have?

elripster

Guys, the 22RE was a great engine in the cars of the early 80's and 2wd trucks. It made a great reputation for itself up against what was being put in small cars/trucks by the competition. (Not a very competitive field back then) It is way underpowered for an aerodynamically obtuse 4wd truck and worse in the heavier 4runner. That stress will wear it out faster.

That said, this engine was available when the national speed limit was 55MPH. Just holding 60 back then was Ok. The conditions have changed and the engine struggles. It is under more stress today than it was when it drove off the lot. What are ya' gonna do?

Really, you need to swap it for a larger engine. Toyota engineers did just that in everything they have built since the 22RE was replaced. They realized the market demanded more power than they were giving and they fixed it. The 3VZE was rushed in as a (IMO) stopgap with the 3.4 and the larger 4 banger being the "fix" in the Tacoma line up. I believe the Tacoma/3rd gen 4runner were also lighter than their predecessors thus further improving their performance.

I say don't debate the 22RE to death. It was good when it came out but as I said driving conditions and expectations have changed.

Frank

DCYota

If you hate the 22RE, you should try the 3FE sometime. It's an exercise in patience and good listening skills every time you drive

Sorry to hear you're not happy with the engine.

GV27

Well, there is that. I wouldn't argue that it's a power house by any means. But to say that it's a poorly designed, unreliable and non-durable unit is just plain false. Personally I think that is well proven by the fact we're arguing about it 13 years after the last one came off the line and 20 years after the ones people are bitching about were made. A good friend of mine has an '84 pickup with over 300k on the original lump. The body is almost completely rusted away but it still runs fine. He lives up a very steep mountain road and down a rough dirt road so the truck gets hammered on a daily basis. He wouldn't argue this one. He'd just laugh and say "hey! good luck with that buick!".

These days people think that a truck that has a worse power-to-weight ratio than a 15 year old Ferrari is a dog that can "barely get out of it's own way".

People always say how slow and underpowered and junk my 15 year-old 190k mile V6 is but I can still maintain better than 60 up Floyd Hill (7% grade, 7-8k feet above sea level - plenty of rowing) and beat most folks off the line and down exit ramps. Nearly 200k miles and it still runs like new. I just don't see the need for a 400hp 7-liter V8 so I guess I'm the wrong guy to talk to.

skife

reffering to the two that we're in my truck, one is a 22RE the other is a 22R with EFI on it.


i don't need 400 hp, 300 hp, 200 hp, but i'd really like 150-160.

i'm not knocking on the 22R-E at all, besides saying that i think its underpowered for what i want.

i love my truck to death, but i just want a little bit more power, i've swapped the cam to the comp 261, and i've got a downey header on it. it still seems doggy on the highway, i think its time for a modern motor.

ovrrdrive

Let me get this straight... You've been arguing in this thread and you don't even have a 22RE in your truck?

Hmm, I guess so.

GV27

Had 'em in the past trouble free. As mentioned close friend has one that's absolutely ancient.

More to the point - and why I jumped in in the first place - everybody keeps telling me I need to put a 22re in my truck because my V6 is so unreliable. Now it turns out that the 22re is completely unreliable. Really?

ovrrdrive

I never said it was completely unreliable I don't believe. I said that I had lost faith in it and that I had bad luck with mine in the past. I really don't have any opinion on what people do to their own trucks as far as a 22RE goes.

I would say though that if you go to the expense and trouble of doing an engine swap that it would be a much better idea with more support to do a 3.4L swap.

Flash319

What makes you think that any other motor is different just because it is new??? Everyone seems to love a small block chev that was designed in the 60's (50's maybe?). No one wanted 2 bolt mains because they would crack, solid lifters always needed adjustment, rear seal design sucked.

The 22re has its weak spots just like everything. The timing chain guides and tensioner are the weak spot in the 22re. If you know that, and buy one without changing them out then you are to blame when it blows up. Steel guides and a chain set are very cheap (engblder) and will probebly outlast the rest of the truck once installed. Engineers are people and decisions get made mostly based on money and manufacturability (sp) then engine life in that order. Auto companies are in the buisness of making money that is why they made a bigger engine and dumped the the 22re, demand for power not reliability because they had the public on reliablility all ready with the 20 series of motors reputation. Will a 3.4L go half a million miles?? Don't really know yet because they have not been out that long to have a good sample size. I think the 22re is a great engine that has had a long service life so a lot is known about them. This is good for aftermarket parts, cheap parts and a reliable engine because of that. Sounds like a modern Small Block Chev......... minus a few hundread HP

CJM

Perhaps your expecting more power when in reality its a torquey engine, not designed for speed?

I dunno, a friend of mine has one and has never had any issues.

Cargun

22RE's are getting up there in years, as the supply of good factory units dwindles the amount of problems with them will just increase.

They have a rep that was earned back in the early to mid 80's, and it is really hard to live up to that rep when compared to modern engines. Back in the early 80's an engine that would run 200k+ with nothing more than a couple timing chain replacements and a valve adjustement was awesome. The power really wasn't lacking THAT much compared to the competition (especially with stock 28" rubber). The engines are beefy from the standpoint you can stand on the throttle all day, run them at extreme angles, run almost any viscosity of engine oil in them, and they'll just keep chugging.

But, by the late 80's, the 22RE was becoming a relic. 31" tires are not its friend. It gets horrible fuel mileage relative to the amount of work it's doing (20 mpg on a <4000lbs truck with 116 hp? Come on!). And needing to tear into the engine every 100k for a timing chain replacement is ridiculous. I'd rip on the valve adjusting thing... but my Cummins needs that too, so I guess it's OK Can't argue with the reliability of a solid lifter relative to hydraulics though.

Now we're about in 2008, and I can say the 22RE has been past its prime for 20 years. Any new engine getting dropped in one of my Yota's will be a 4.3 Chevy V6 (not exactly a spring chicken, but proven, cheap, and an easy swap). It too is a genuine 200k+ engine, and you don't even have to take the valve covers off to get it there. Way more power and torque, same, if not better fuel economy. I can't justify the additional expense of a 3.4 Toyota... I don't see anything that it can do a 4.3 Chevy can't. And the 4.3 has the good low end torque I love.

But until then.... it'll be GAS ON! in the 22RE and 3.slow till they blow!

GroceryGetter

I dont mean to be smart@@ when I make the question, especially since I'm a Newb on the board. I was wondering if anyone has ever put in a 4.0L HO Jeep in before, or if it could be done? I have one laying around and " IF " I dont end up selling mine, I was thinking of trying that. I have the computer/harness, everything to make it even run on the stand....

As for my 22RE experience, which has been short thus far, it has impressed me for being a 4 banger!! I live in hill country of central Texas, and I was expecting to shift every 5 minutes, but she keeps on pulling up hills like nobodys business. " IF " i keep her, and also keep the 22re in, I would change the gear ratio a bit, just to add the extra "UMFF" it needs!!

anyways, my 2 cents.

ovrrdrive

[QUOTE=Cargun;50698990]Back in the early 80's an engine that would run 200k+ with nothing more than a couple timing chain replacements and a valve adjustement was awesome. QUOTE]


Exactly! I remember when even Consumer reports basically said that engines were designed to run 100k and that was it. It's easy to see how in comparison to that the 22RE is a gem.

It's also easy to see how when someone says they had a bad one people don't believe them and think they are just talking ...

elripster

The 22RE is not a torque-y engine at all. It has a larger bore Vs. stroke common in cars and motorcycles. Note that it was in almost every car Toyota imported at one point. It made into trucks because it was all they had, not because it was the "right" engine for the job. That ratio lends itself to revving. If you want it to move you, tune it to rev and increase the torque by lowering the gearing. That will make a big difference. This works well, if you are in doubt, take a sport bike for a spin.

The 3VZE, on the other hand is a torque-y engine from the standpoint that its stroke is larger than its bore. Unfortunately, it is still too small to pull a 4000lb truck with poor aerodynamics and high rolling resistance. The auto's too tall overdrive only makes life on it harder.

The 3.4 is the right engine for 2/3's+ of the populace. Toyota chose that displacement for a reason.

Frank

skife

i don't think anyone's done this... doesn't seem practical

GroceryGetter

I agree now that i take a closer look at it... i was just shooting from the hip!! I am going to have to sell it anyways, I guess me thinking about how to improve it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!!