trail-gear vs. marlin SAS kit
02-28-2006, 07:17 AM
#41
Contributing Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 4RunnerKid
i got my kit from trail-gear and am very happy with everything i received. top notch company in my book. i will definitely be doing business with them in the future.
02-28-2006, 07:19 AM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by WATRD
Nice lecture/brown nose job!
But I must disagree with your final point.
All vendors are not created equal, nor do they all deserve the same level of respect. Some go out of their way to service their customers, some would much rather move a lot of product than have anything to do with customer service. By your logic, Nitrous Enterprises and Marlin would fall in the same basket.
This forum is a PERFECT place for people to pass along their experiences with various vendors, good or bad.
You are confusing the purpose of this forum. It is NOT a forum for advertisers to push their goods. It is a community of users, sharing their wants, needs and experiences. Sometimes those are good, sometimes those are bad. Sometimes people in the industry develop a much deserved reputation that precedes them and there is nothing wrong with that being made clear to others.
We are not here to pander to the vendors. If they don't like what is being said about them, then they need to fix that with customer service/better products/who they hire.
Vendors don't own this place, users do. I would much rather hear the experience of one real user than have multiple people from the same vendor trot out their dog and pony show and try to sell me their goods.
But I must disagree with your final point.
All vendors are not created equal, nor do they all deserve the same level of respect. Some go out of their way to service their customers, some would much rather move a lot of product than have anything to do with customer service. By your logic, Nitrous Enterprises and Marlin would fall in the same basket.
This forum is a PERFECT place for people to pass along their experiences with various vendors, good or bad.
You are confusing the purpose of this forum. It is NOT a forum for advertisers to push their goods. It is a community of users, sharing their wants, needs and experiences. Sometimes those are good, sometimes those are bad. Sometimes people in the industry develop a much deserved reputation that precedes them and there is nothing wrong with that being made clear to others.
We are not here to pander to the vendors. If they don't like what is being said about them, then they need to fix that with customer service/better products/who they hire.
Vendors don't own this place, users do. I would much rather hear the experience of one real user than have multiple people from the same vendor trot out their dog and pony show and try to sell me their goods.
And as for your assumption of Brown Nosing? I haven't spent a dime with T.G. So what do I have to gain by voicing my opinion? That's what this board is for right? Voicing an opinion?
And you need to take a look around...Corey owns the place and the users follow suite...if what you said was true..then no one would get banned eh?
Nice Try. I respect your point...you just don't respect mine and that's why your off base about my post.
02-28-2006, 07:53 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jsnby
Which springs are you running front/rear? Your sig says 5", but their site says to run 1" taller springs in the rear.
The front has dropped a little so it is more level...for now. 4runners have a fata$$.
02-28-2006, 08:05 AM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 4rnr
I have a marlin kit with 4" in the front and 5" in the rear....
The front has dropped a little so it is more level...for now. 4runners have a fata$$.
The front has dropped a little so it is more level...for now. 4runners have a fata$$.
I'm also running Marlin F/R and if I were buying springs today, I would be asking the vendor where they are made. If they balk, say overseas, give you a lame answer go somewhere else.
I know in the past, Marlin has had springs made in Mexico (so did a few other vendors at the same time) but to the best of my knowledge they are all USA made now. I have purchased everything for my rigs from Marlin. So I'm a little biased.
And how many emoticons are allowed in a post? LOL!
02-28-2006, 08:15 AM
#45
Contributing Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Duvall, WA
Posts: 5,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by formulatoy#36
Very well said...but that's not what I said. No where did I ever refer that NE and Marlin should be treated the same (i.e., spend money with them) I said to take a look, then make your choice with a purchase or not...but be respectful. What's so hard about that?
And as for your assumption of Brown Nosing? I haven't spent a dime with T.G. So what do I have to gain by voicing my opinion? That's what this board is for right? Voicing an opinion?
And you need to take a look around...Corey owns the place and the users follow suite...if what you said was true..then no one would get banned eh?
Nice Try. I respect your point...you just don't respect mine and that's why your off base about my post.
And as for your assumption of Brown Nosing? I haven't spent a dime with T.G. So what do I have to gain by voicing my opinion? That's what this board is for right? Voicing an opinion?
And you need to take a look around...Corey owns the place and the users follow suite...if what you said was true..then no one would get banned eh?
Nice Try. I respect your point...you just don't respect mine and that's why your off base about my post.
Your whole "vote with your wallet" theory is flawed. But with your limited experience, you might not see that yet. The problem is that unless the 4x4 community spreads the word ahead of the disreputable, they always find new victims coming along. One way the 4x4 community self polices is by word of mouth about who is as good as their word and who is not, hopefully heading off a few bad deals along the way.
It's funny that you are going on about this forum being for voicing opinions, yet in your post I was responding to, it certainly sounded like you were all for shutting down the voices of those who had negative opinions about a vendor. So it's for voicing opinions as long as they agree with yours?
Me take a look around? Ha! You are a funny one. I have been here for a very long time. I have wheeled with Corey and many others on the forum I know personally. Corey may have started the place along with Chris, but I have never heard either of them pander to vendors in the way that you seem to be advocating. This place has ALWAYS been about the users and the management has bent over backward to make that the case. It has never been about about sucking up to vendors. If they deserve a reputation, good or bad, they will earn it in time. They cannot buy a good reputation and with each transaction they make, they futher solidify that reputation.
A lot of vendors have come and gone over the years and pretty much all of them sounded great at first. But as I mentioned in a earlier post, the leopard cannot change his spots and the bad apples tend to shake out as the cream rises to the top (appologies for the mixed metaphor). Only time will tell.
02-28-2006, 08:37 AM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
=Vendors earn respect by doing the right thing by their customers and they lose it by making shady deals, etc. Some people/vendors have earned a healty level of disrespect for a patteren of behavior that started long before you came on the scene a whole year ago.
=
Your whole "vote with your wallet" theory is flawed. But with your limited experience, you might not see that yet. The problem is that unless the 4x4 community spreads the word ahead of the disreputable, they always find new victims coming along. One way the 4x4 community self polices is by word of mouth about who is as good as their word and who is not, hopefully heading off a few bad deals along the way.
Your whole "vote with your wallet" theory is flawed. But with your limited experience, you might not see that yet. The problem is that unless the 4x4 community spreads the word ahead of the disreputable, they always find new victims coming along. One way the 4x4 community self polices is by word of mouth about who is as good as their word and who is not, hopefully heading off a few bad deals along the way.
=
It's funny that you are going on about this forum being for voicing opinions, yet in your post I was responding to, it certainly sounded like you were all for shutting down the voices of those who had negative opinions about a vendor. So it's for voicing opinions as long as they agree with yours?
It's funny that you are going on about this forum being for voicing opinions, yet in your post I was responding to, it certainly sounded like you were all for shutting down the voices of those who had negative opinions about a vendor. So it's for voicing opinions as long as they agree with yours?
=
Me take a look around? Ha! You are a funny one. I have been here for a very long time. I have wheeled with Corey and many others on the forum I know personally. Corey may have started the place along with Chris, but I have never heard either of them pander to vendors in the way that you seem to be advocating. This place has ALWAYS been about the users and the management has bent over backward to make that the case. It has never been about about sucking up to vendors. If they deserve a reputation, good or bad, they will earn it in time. They cannot buy a good reputation and with each transaction they make, they futher solidify that reputation.
Me take a look around? Ha! You are a funny one. I have been here for a very long time. I have wheeled with Corey and many others on the forum I know personally. Corey may have started the place along with Chris, but I have never heard either of them pander to vendors in the way that you seem to be advocating. This place has ALWAYS been about the users and the management has bent over backward to make that the case. It has never been about about sucking up to vendors. If they deserve a reputation, good or bad, they will earn it in time. They cannot buy a good reputation and with each transaction they make, they futher solidify that reputation.
=
A lot of vendors have come and gone over the years and pretty much all of them sounded great at first. But as I mentioned in a earlier post, the leopard cannot change his spots and the bad apples tend to shake out as the cream rises to the top (appologies for the mixed metaphor). Only time will tell.
A lot of vendors have come and gone over the years and pretty much all of them sounded great at first. But as I mentioned in a earlier post, the leopard cannot change his spots and the bad apples tend to shake out as the cream rises to the top (appologies for the mixed metaphor). Only time will tell.
I can understand slow shipping, misrepresenting products, ripping people off, etc. but from what I understand TG offers a quality product that people have liked.
02-28-2006, 09:49 AM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well this is what marlin has told me. The imports can settle quickly and uneven, and they are weaker, there were other reasons too. I would talk to the guys at marlin directly. As far as I know they are the only ones of allpro, sky, TG, marlin, to offer these US springs. I have heard alot of people say that the best springs to run are alcans, deavers, and marlins' US springs. But call marlin ask them.
02-28-2006, 10:36 AM
#49
FormerVendor
Import or Domestic is completely irrelevant when you are the manufacturer. We manufacture our springs to our exact specifications and quality standards. We actually have our own drawings and internal test procedures that support our ongoing commitment in providing the highest quality products. All TG products undergo a receiving/inspection procedure prior to being placed into inventory.
Please feel free to come by the shop and I will demonstrate our testing procedure for you first hand.
Best Regards,
Matt
Please feel free to come by the shop and I will demonstrate our testing procedure for you first hand.
Best Regards,
Matt
02-28-2006, 12:52 PM
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Marlin and Sky both offer USA made leaf springs. Marlin also offers import springs.
Matt - Trail Gear - do you actually manufacture the springs in house, or design them in house?
I find it hard to believe that it is irrelevant as to where the springs are made. From all my experiences with products made in Mexico, China, India...etc they are all of much lesser quality, not only in the assembly process but also the actual materials, whether it be steel, aluminum, plastic you name it.
Time will tell...
Matt - Trail Gear - do you actually manufacture the springs in house, or design them in house?
I find it hard to believe that it is irrelevant as to where the springs are made. From all my experiences with products made in Mexico, China, India...etc they are all of much lesser quality, not only in the assembly process but also the actual materials, whether it be steel, aluminum, plastic you name it.
Time will tell...
02-28-2006, 01:59 PM
#53
Contributing Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 1,314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by westy44runner
Marlin and Sky both offer USA made leaf springs. Marlin also offers import springs.
Matt - Trail Gear - do you actually manufacture the springs in house, or design them in house?
I find it hard to believe that it is irrelevant as to where the springs are made. From all my experiences with products made in Mexico, China, India...etc they are all of much lesser quality, not only in the assembly process but also the actual materials, whether it be steel, aluminum, plastic you name it.
Time will tell...
Matt - Trail Gear - do you actually manufacture the springs in house, or design them in house?
I find it hard to believe that it is irrelevant as to where the springs are made. From all my experiences with products made in Mexico, China, India...etc they are all of much lesser quality, not only in the assembly process but also the actual materials, whether it be steel, aluminum, plastic you name it.
Time will tell...
02-28-2006, 02:22 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by shiftless89
isn't your truck made in japan?
Come on, are you serious, if you think japan falls into the china, india, korea, mexico category then you are way off base.
02-28-2006, 03:29 PM
#55
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by westy44runner
Marlin and Sky both offer USA made leaf springs. Marlin also offers import springs.
Matt - Trail Gear - do you actually manufacture the springs in house, or design them in house?
I find it hard to believe that it is irrelevant as to where the springs are made. From all my experiences with products made in Mexico, China, India...etc they are all of much lesser quality, not only in the assembly process but also the actual materials, whether it be steel, aluminum, plastic you name it.
Time will tell...
Matt - Trail Gear - do you actually manufacture the springs in house, or design them in house?
I find it hard to believe that it is irrelevant as to where the springs are made. From all my experiences with products made in Mexico, China, India...etc they are all of much lesser quality, not only in the assembly process but also the actual materials, whether it be steel, aluminum, plastic you name it.
Time will tell...
I will agree with you that the materials and processing can be a problem when not handled properly. Trail-Gear has a complete quality control system in place that monitors all of the critical dimensions and materials used when manufacturing our products. The quality control system has been applied for all products manufactured by TG. For example, the wheel spacers that we sell are subjected to a chemical analysis and hardness testing before they are approved. This testing also includes the fasteners that are sold with the wheel spacers. I am pretty sure that TG is the only company doing this type of testing. In regard to the leaf springs, they are like many of the other TG products, they are manufactured in our overseas division and then shipped to the Fresno location where we complete the final testing and inspection.
Thanks,
Matt
Last edited by Trail-Gear; 02-28-2006 at 03:30 PM.
02-28-2006, 06:17 PM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by formulatoy#36
I assume we are still talking about Chris here. So what did he do Shady? Who has he wronged? Who has been ripped off by Trail Gear? Educate me O' wise one of great experience. But back it up with proof and not internet hearsay...<snip>...What did Gieger do? Not heard of ONE bad deal with Chris. Not even from Marlin (publicly) Wouldn't he be the very first to complain?
...So are we talking about a product here with TG or we talking about Chris personally? So what I get from your posts is this isn't about TG products at all...this about YOUR BIAS towards a vendor because of what? What you've heard second hand? First hand? What?
I can understand slow shipping, misrepresenting products, ripping people off, etc. but from what I understand TG offers a quality product that people have liked.
...So are we talking about a product here with TG or we talking about Chris personally? So what I get from your posts is this isn't about TG products at all...this about YOUR BIAS towards a vendor because of what? What you've heard second hand? First hand? What?
I can understand slow shipping, misrepresenting products, ripping people off, etc. but from what I understand TG offers a quality product that people have liked.
You ask what did Geiger do? Go search pirate or just call All-Pro or Marlin and ask, they will tell you straight up.
Nobody is speaking of the quality of TG's products, we are speaking of the possibility for TG to burn other players in the industry. As a consumer you will most likely never be affected by TG's business practices or by a faulty product. That is not the issue. If you want to help preserve the off-road community then you might choose to support the guys who made this all happen in the first place, instead of the guys who copy other guys products and undercut them. If TG has some innovative new products then I apologize but at this point all I've seen is knock-off stuff sourced from overseas vendors at discount prices.
02-28-2006, 06:48 PM
#57
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by SEAN_at_TLT
There is a big difference between internet hearsay and the information myself and Adrian have offered up. Both of us work in the industry and get our information from reputable sources if not first hand. We have both worked with Marlin and Chris.
You ask what did Geiger do? Go search pirate or just call All-Pro or Marlin and ask, they will tell you straight up.
Nobody is speaking of the quality of TG's products, we are speaking of the possibility for TG to burn other players in the industry. As a consumer you will most likely never be affected by TG's business practices or by a faulty product. That is not the issue. If you want to help preserve the off-road community then you might choose to support the guys who made this all happen in the first place, instead of the guys who copy other guys products and undercut them. If TG has some innovative new products then I apologize but at this point all I've seen is knock-off stuff sourced from overseas vendors at discount prices.
You ask what did Geiger do? Go search pirate or just call All-Pro or Marlin and ask, they will tell you straight up.
Nobody is speaking of the quality of TG's products, we are speaking of the possibility for TG to burn other players in the industry. As a consumer you will most likely never be affected by TG's business practices or by a faulty product. That is not the issue. If you want to help preserve the off-road community then you might choose to support the guys who made this all happen in the first place, instead of the guys who copy other guys products and undercut them. If TG has some innovative new products then I apologize but at this point all I've seen is knock-off stuff sourced from overseas vendors at discount prices.
Can you please PM me your full name and address? I will personally pay your airfare to come to Fresno. I think that after spending just one day with Myself and Chris you will find that we are not all that you say we are. I am not trying to come off arrogant or cocky in anyway. I really mean it; I am inviting you to Fresno as soon as you have time. My door is always open. I would like to review the product line and show you how we designed each product. I will dedicate my engineering staff to show that we have not stolen or ripped any designs. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised that we are actually pretty innovative. I hope that you can free up some time soon.
Best Regards,
Matt
02-28-2006, 08:35 PM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 746
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Trail-Gear
Can you please PM me your full name and address? I will personally pay your airfare to come to Fresno. I think that after spending just one day with Myself and Chris you will find that we are not all that you say we are. I am not trying to come off arrogant or cocky in anyway. I really mean it; I am inviting you to Fresno as soon as you have time. My door is always open. I would like to review the product line and show you how we designed each product. I will dedicate my engineering staff to show that we have not stolen or ripped any designs. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised that we are actually pretty innovative. I hope that you can free up some time soon.
Best Regards,
Matt
Best Regards,
Matt
I believe you have a quality product line and I know that many facilities overseas have the capabilities to make products that meet or exceed the level which we see here in the states at a better price. I also know you have strong financial backing and good facilites at your disposal which is all fine and dandy but not the issue. To me the issue is whether or not you are running a company that will be an active part of the off-road community and provide positive interaction with other manufacturers and consumers and at the same time offer innovative and original products. Look at Off-Road Solutions, Front Range Off-Road and Rockstomper for instance. They are all in the same basic area geographically yet they exist harmoniously and work together with little if any drama.
I know you are a sponsor on TTORA and possibly other forums and that's a great start. I think the next logical step is to come completely clean by telling the WHOLE story. I know I'd love to hear it from you as all I know about you and your company is what I've been told by other people. I'd also be interested to see or hear about some of your products that differ from those already offered by other long-standing companies that Chris Geiger has worked for in the past.
Thanks again for your open communication hopefully it will ultimately clear this matter up for everyone.
